The color yellow is bright and beautiful..I have been studying these yellows, lots of different types of yellow out there..I have been studying photos of yellow flowers too, and while I see it is common to use browns and oranges, what about a clean yellow flower, perfectly yellow, but in the shade..
here is the photo I am talking about..isnt it a beautiful photo, I gave it a shot with my watercolors, and did not please myself at all with trying to shade them,
can I please have some assistance with the issue of shading these yellow flowers. would I use the gray? It doesnt seem as though I would..but maybe?
here is also my poor attempt at capturing these lovely sunflowers
Click to view attachment Click to view attachment
Full Version: Yellow
Kay, the shade on the sunflower is a warm yellow, the way I see it which goes deeper adding bits of orange.If you look closely at the flowers in the second plan or background they even have hues of brick red.So I would not add gray or other color after yellow but create this hue in a glass and apply it as the third layer of watercolor.
I also have another question, when using a photo like this and changing it like I did, does that make it different enough from the original that it wouldn't be a copyright issue? (not that I have to worry about this fact, it is just something I am curious about)
Hi Kay,
Purple is yellow's complement. Use some violet hues for the shadows, and they'll mix with the yellows to produce interesting greys.
Purple is yellow's complement. Use some violet hues for the shadows, and they'll mix with the yellows to produce interesting greys.
QUOTE (Ernest Friedman-Hill @ May 17 2009, 01:40 PM) 
Hi Kay,
Purple is yellow's complement. Use some violet hues for the shadows, and they'll mix with the yellows to produce interesting greys.
Purple is yellow's complement. Use some violet hues for the shadows, and they'll mix with the yellows to produce interesting greys.
ah..some very soft purples..thank you very much..I have been driving myself crazy with this yellow flower
If you take the actual colour from the photo, it's a brown.
Click to view attachment
But if you look at the photo, the whole picture is quite warm in tone, therefore a purple mix toward the red zone would be appropriate. If the picture were in cooler tones, a purple wash toward the blue zone would be appropriate. I would suggest you paint a few yellow petals on a scrap piece of paper and when dry, add some washes of differing tones. Ultramarine and Alizarin crimson would do it.
Click to view attachment
But if you look at the photo, the whole picture is quite warm in tone, therefore a purple mix toward the red zone would be appropriate. If the picture were in cooler tones, a purple wash toward the blue zone would be appropriate. I would suggest you paint a few yellow petals on a scrap piece of paper and when dry, add some washes of differing tones. Ultramarine and Alizarin crimson would do it.
Nice steve ...very helpful .
Kay your fine about the copy right issue ...flowers are flowers and you have changed it just fine ...even if you painted the photo right down to the knobs on the stove and displayed it here just list that its not your image ..your fine .. alot of people will try to say NO ! you should never do that ..but I have looked the issuse up many times and really to me its not a problem .. now if you painted it just as it was in the photo and sold them ..maybe their would be a issue but I have heard they need to have the image copy written so no worries ....your drawing is nice and I like the idea that steve has with finding yoiur colors to make it look as real as possible.
Kay your fine about the copy right issue ...flowers are flowers and you have changed it just fine ...even if you painted the photo right down to the knobs on the stove and displayed it here just list that its not your image ..your fine .. alot of people will try to say NO ! you should never do that ..but I have looked the issuse up many times and really to me its not a problem .. now if you painted it just as it was in the photo and sold them ..maybe their would be a issue but I have heard they need to have the image copy written so no worries ....your drawing is nice and I like the idea that steve has with finding yoiur colors to make it look as real as possible.
QUOTE (Songsparrow @ May 17 2009, 03:14 PM)
If you take the actual colour from the photo, it's a brown.
Click to view attachment
But if you look at the photo, the whole picture is quite warm in tone, therefore a purple mix toward the red zone would be appropriate. If the picture were in cooler tones, a purple wash toward the blue zone would be appropriate. I would suggest you paint a few yellow petals on a scrap piece of paper and when dry, add some washes of differing tones. Ultramarine and Alizarin crimson would do it.
Click to view attachment
But if you look at the photo, the whole picture is quite warm in tone, therefore a purple mix toward the red zone would be appropriate. If the picture were in cooler tones, a purple wash toward the blue zone would be appropriate. I would suggest you paint a few yellow petals on a scrap piece of paper and when dry, add some washes of differing tones. Ultramarine and Alizarin crimson would do it.
thank you kim, and steve..Steve how bout you paint this one so i can study your work and see how you do it..Perhaps if you are not in a flowery mood, another skilled in the medium would do so..
I shall try another at a later date, but this yellow has given me a hard time.
thanks guys
Frankly Kay, I think you've made a better job of these flowers than I ever would! If you're worried about the shadows, leave them out! The painting looks pretty good to me as it is!
Not sure how it works with water color but when I have to shade an area, I try different things with the base color. Shadows are just a darker version of the color the shadow falls on. So I would take the base yellow used for the lighted area and try adding a touch of raw umber or tiny touch of black. If that doesn't get me where I need to go I would try gray or the complimentary color to see which would work best before I apply it to the painting. I really don't do well with knowing what to mix to get the color I need, so it is lots of testing and trying. This of is with acrylics applied with an airbrush.. a bit easier to apply very light coats that don't make to much of a mess if it is wrong.. good luck
For instance, this red in this mouth was a base red and shadows were raw umber purple and some black mixed at different percentages trial and error. The lighter red was the same base with white added.
Hope this helps a little.. but probably not apples to apples with the 2 different types of paint and technique
Click to view attachment
For instance, this red in this mouth was a base red and shadows were raw umber purple and some black mixed at different percentages trial and error. The lighter red was the same base with white added.
Hope this helps a little.. but probably not apples to apples with the 2 different types of paint and technique
Click to view attachment
Kay,
I have a book called "Making Color Sing" by Jeanne Dobie, and she has some great info on using colours next to each other to get great shadows without going murky and having colours lift each other. Its worth a look if you have it in library near you. I bought it and find while its not a book I use all the time I do go back to it time and again when a colour problem stumps me.
I have a book called "Making Color Sing" by Jeanne Dobie, and she has some great info on using colours next to each other to get great shadows without going murky and having colours lift each other. Its worth a look if you have it in library near you. I bought it and find while its not a book I use all the time I do go back to it time and again when a colour problem stumps me.
steve that is really beautiful..thank you for doing that so I can see it..
QUOTE (bigs @ May 18 2009, 01:47 AM)
Kay,
I have a book called "Making Color Sing" by Jeanne Dobie, and she has some great info on using colours next to each other to get great shadows without going murky and having colours lift each other. Its worth a look if you have it in library near you. I bought it and find while its not a book I use all the time I do go back to it time and again when a colour problem stumps me.
I have a book called "Making Color Sing" by Jeanne Dobie, and she has some great info on using colours next to each other to get great shadows without going murky and having colours lift each other. Its worth a look if you have it in library near you. I bought it and find while its not a book I use all the time I do go back to it time and again when a colour problem stumps me.
Sue, funny you should mention that, I was just looking at that book on Alibris..I shall have to pick it up in a couple of weeks.
QUOTE
.I have been studying photos of yellow flowers too, and while I see it is common to use browns and oranges, what about a clean yellow flower, perfectly yellow, but in the shade..
here is the photo I am talking about..isnt it a beautiful photo, I gave it a shot with my watercolors, and did not please myself at all with trying to shade them,
can I please have some assistance with the issue of shading these yellow flowers.
here is the photo I am talking about..isnt it a beautiful photo, I gave it a shot with my watercolors, and did not please myself at all with trying to shade them,
can I please have some assistance with the issue of shading these yellow flowers.
I think that with yellows, people make the mistake of thinking that, because the brightly lit areas are "yellow", that in order to paint the shaded areas we have to start with what we generally call "yellow" paint, and then darken it down.
Steve is correct in looking at the shaded areas with photoshop, and noting that the actual colour in that area is a brown.
The colours we normally call "yellow" are in fact high-value yellow - if we reduce the value, while holding hue constant, then orangey-yellows become browns at lower values, and for yellows which are of hues increasingly towards greenish-yellows, the lower value ones change from browns towards olive-greens.
Adding purple to a yellow will lower its value, but will also markedly lower its chroma (so the colour becomes less intense as well as darker).
I'd suggest a better approach is to recognise that "low-value yellows" ARE browns through to olive-greens, and paint the areas accordingly - and these darker areas do NOT necessarily need to be mixed from "yellow" paint.
Dave
Because this is a subject I would not normaly tackle, I was unsure of how to cope with the shadows. Now that I have tackled it! I would agree with Dave and probably use browns to cover the shaded areas. As you can see from my pallette, I only have one yellow. Because the subjects I choose to paint tend to be land/cityscapes, buildings and boats, I don't really have the correct pallette for floral painting. I might have another go at the flower heads and use brown tints to see what difference it makes!
Usefull information Dave. Thanks.
Usefull information Dave. Thanks.
QUOTE (dcorc @ May 18 2009, 09:59 AM)
I think that with yellows, people make the mistake of thinking that, because the brightly lit areas are "yellow", that in order to paint the shaded areas we have to start with what we generally call "yellow" paint, and then darken it down.
Steve is correct in looking at the shaded areas with photoshop, and noting that the actual colour in that area is a brown.
The colours we normally call "yellow" are in fact high-value yellow - if we reduce the value, while holding hue constant, then orangey-yellows become browns at lower values, and for yellows which are of hues increasingly towards greenish-yellows, the lower value ones change from browns towards olive-greens.
Adding purple to a yellow will lower its value, but will also markedly lower its chroma (so the colour becomes less intense as well as darker).
I'd suggest a better approach is to recognise that "low-value yellows" ARE browns through to olive-greens, and paint the areas accordingly - and these darker areas do NOT necessarily need to be mixed from "yellow" paint.
Dave
Steve is correct in looking at the shaded areas with photoshop, and noting that the actual colour in that area is a brown.
The colours we normally call "yellow" are in fact high-value yellow - if we reduce the value, while holding hue constant, then orangey-yellows become browns at lower values, and for yellows which are of hues increasingly towards greenish-yellows, the lower value ones change from browns towards olive-greens.
Adding purple to a yellow will lower its value, but will also markedly lower its chroma (so the colour becomes less intense as well as darker).
I'd suggest a better approach is to recognise that "low-value yellows" ARE browns through to olive-greens, and paint the areas accordingly - and these darker areas do NOT necessarily need to be mixed from "yellow" paint.
Dave
wow..Dave thank you so very much for that comprehensive answer..I shall take this info into account andtry to put it to work for me on my next yellow project..
Here's a photo of Munsell chips - what this shows is a top row where the hues vary from orangey-yellows through yellows to greenish-yellows. Each vertical column keeps the hue constant and gradually reduces the value as we move down the column. (You'll have to take my word for it that they appear more evenly and accurately spaced in real life than in the photo - which shows some of the limitations of colour-accuracy in digital photography!).
However, the general trend is still clear, browns on the left gradually transitioning to olive-greens on the right. (The left-hand strip shows neutrals at the same value).
Dave
However, the general trend is still clear, browns on the left gradually transitioning to olive-greens on the right. (The left-hand strip shows neutrals at the same value).
Dave
wow..that is an excellent example
I once found this site where you can upload a reference photo and get an ideal palette. Maybe it helps.
QUOTE (Cees @ May 18 2009, 11:25 AM)
I once found this site where you can upload a reference photo and get an ideal palette. Maybe it helps.
Hey that is really useful!
Thanks !!!
thanks cees..i think I remember you posting this now a while back..or maybe someone else..
QUOTE (oliverandjazz @ May 18 2009, 05:34 PM)
thanks cees..i think I remember you posting this now a while back..or maybe someone else..
I posted this already a while back. In my opinion it quite accurately shows you the colors you may need. The problem that remains for you is how to make to correct mixtures.
just lovely they are..but they drive me crazy cause the flowers themselves appear sooo yellow.
QUOTE (oliverandjazz @ May 18 2009, 07:02 PM)
just lovely they are..but they drive me crazy cause the flowers themselves appear sooo yellow.
That's because they are yellow. If you move each petal into the sunlight, it's yellow. But these are in the shade. I've heard it said here on this site that you should paint what you see, and not what you think is there. I just find this a very difficult subject.
I have just put a watercolour filter over the original photo (can't think why I didn't try this earlier...?) You can see the colour rendition much easier now.
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
well that was magic...how the heck did you do that 
QUOTE (oliverandjazz @ May 18 2009, 07:28 PM)
well that was magic...how the heck did you do that
Oh I do superhero stuff in my spare time.
And if you load the pic in photoshop, you can add an artistic filter to it.
oh..i only have gimp at the moment..but here is a try at the head with the method of Daves and I must say I am much happier heading toward yellowish greens for shading..thanks dave, as usual your info is spot on..with some practice they can only get better now that i know which direction to head in, I knew there was much more to yellow than meets the eye. Click to view attachment
He's a mine of very usefull information that Dave! Wish he lived next door to me..
The background colour in the second version also lifts the yellow in Steve's (that's the type of stuff that Dobie discusses too Kay).
Also Kay I downloaded GIMP just last week (I know I am sloooowww) but it has artistic filters under tools so you can try some of those to get the same effect as Steve. It also has where I can click on a portion of a photo and get the appropriate colour come up on a secondary chroma screen. I just wish the manual to use this software wasn't only available while online - but I am learning a lot off line too.
Also Kay I downloaded GIMP just last week (I know I am sloooowww) but it has artistic filters under tools so you can try some of those to get the same effect as Steve. It also has where I can click on a portion of a photo and get the appropriate colour come up on a secondary chroma screen. I just wish the manual to use this software wasn't only available while online - but I am learning a lot off line too.
QUOTE (bigs @ May 18 2009, 09:42 PM)
The background colour in the second version also lifts the yellow in Steve's (that's the type of stuff that Dobie discusses too Kay).
Also Kay I downloaded GIMP just last week (I know I am sloooowww) but it has artistic filters under tools so you can try some of those to get the same effect as Steve. It also has where I can click on a portion of a photo and get the appropriate colour come up on a secondary chroma screen. I just wish the manual to use this software wasn't only available while online - but I am learning a lot off line too.
Also Kay I downloaded GIMP just last week (I know I am sloooowww) but it has artistic filters under tools so you can try some of those to get the same effect as Steve. It also has where I can click on a portion of a photo and get the appropriate colour come up on a secondary chroma screen. I just wish the manual to use this software wasn't only available while online - but I am learning a lot off line too.
I am following this discussion with great interest.
Kay, are you familiar with: "Blue and Yellow don't make Green" by Michael Wilcox? It has a companion book "Color Mixing Swatch Book", 2460 mixed hues from just 12 colors. I bought them from Half.com (part of ebay). I think once we start branching out to watercolor or any paint for that matter, a little color theory certainly helps. School of Color
Sue, I love GIMP too, but like you, don't have enough time to study how to use it. For free I think it is wonderful.
I have not heard of that book trish..I will check it out. thanks for the info
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