Hi Everyone!!! Myself and a few other mods have noticed a lack of interest in some areas of drawspace and not enough drawings being displayed. We would like opinions from other members on what you would like to see for challenges or other learning sources and such in the Forum. I have listed a poll with different types of things that people would like to work on in areas that you may have trouble in or want to learn more about. If anyone can think of anything else to add to the list feel free to add it to bring it to our attention. The poll will go for 2 weeks and then decissions will be made from there. Thanks for taking the time and answering.

I voted Ms Venus, but it would only let me vote for one thing so I selected figures. However, I am also interested in perspective/landscapes/waterscapes and faces.


Chris

me too venus--i vote figures but i would like to clairify that i want to learn more like action poses if that makes sense. i love portraits but i would like more feeling or action or something. also i would really love to learn caricartures too. i think that would be very fun. if someone could incorporate that into the cartoon threads maybe, i know i have seen one person on here that was very good at that and i would love to learn more on how to do that kind of work.
Lori

What a great idea Venus.......and Lori it is so great to see you, I have not seen you for a long time... I think you have a great idea....I am also interested in caricatures....I mean, I have done a few but sure need to learn more.....All the best, Brian.

I like the poll, and it does bring up some very needed technical learning.

But I would so much like to see challenges on composition. I would like to see drawing challenges to get experiences in drawing emotions... or even better; drawing things that evoke an emotional response in those who see the art.

Another thing I would like to see is drawing what you see in your mind that you would like to express. Drawing often begins in a person who wants to get their feelings out on paper.

Just some thoughts.

Wow, ALL of you all are coming up with some wonderful ideas!! Silverbird I think I like yours the most because I am forever trying the same thing and cannot do it. Thanks for the idea.

Thanks Venus. This is something I've wanted to say so many times. While I recognize that to train our eyes and hands we need repetition and practice; we artists are sensitive souls too. From the extremis of emotion we are often first led to draw. From those sensitivities and from that tenderness comes the real power of our art.

That said, I also have to say that it is a double edged sword. Sometimes the feelings we have can shut down our ability to draw, as well. Stress can do it. Fear can do it. Performance anxiety and perfectionism can do it. Drawspace should always be that safe place where we can open ourselves into our art. We can support each other until we feel sure enough in ourselves to offer our efforts to critique.

Sometimes too, the pressure to produce every single day can lead to the very stress that shuts us down. I think we have to treat ourselves very carefully. Face our struggles and take breaks when we need to shake out our stresses.

Above all, lets be good to each other.

It's so lovely to see you posting Deborah!

There is a lot of depth and thought provocation in what you say. Although what you refer to is just one facet of the raison d'etre for art it is of course a very important and valid reason. Art need not always have a message. It may only be the representation of beauty be it in nature or anywhere else, it could be the capturing of a moment which may not necessarily be an emotion...it could also be the recording of events, customs or mere objects for posterity (though perhaps photography has become the more appropriate artistic medium for that these days). But most certainly art should communicate something to the viewer.

What art in general and Drawspace in particular should never be is an expression of one-upmanship... of "I can do better than you"... which is not the same thing as saying that one should not strive to do their best and draw out of their comfort zones.

In her opening post Venus talked of a lack of interest in some areas and of works not being displayed. They may not be displayed in the forum but there are certainly plenty of works being displayed in the Gallery. So the question we have to ask is not why people are not drawing, because they are, but why are they not attracted to posting their works in the forums.

Certainly addressing certain areas of skill is very important but I doubt that can be achieved through challenges... the very word challenge may be offputting to a lot of people.

What the board needs is classes in particular areas not challenges. If it's not possible to have a class run by an expert then my suggestion is that we pool all our resources... research our books, magazines, journals, online features and tutorials. As long as we acknowledge our sources this is a perfectly valid and legitimate way to learn.

No one should feel obliged to draw every day. No one should feel obliged to post their drawings at all. But it saddens me to think that some people may be leaving or feel compelled to stay in lurkdom because they are feeling uncomfortable. There should be a place for everyone here - the established artist as well as the timid student. No one should be made to feel inadequate. To put it very bluntly, we are not here to show off... we are here to learn... in all humility.

SweetSilverBird & Rose....that is so well put....I don't think I could add another word.....you all make this place very special.

This is exactly what I think about art. And this an opinion with that I often had trouble in german forums. The most artists say they want to provocate. This is not my understanding, but everyone as he likes. But - are those provocateurs really happy?????

And Rose, the rest you said - I agree 1000%, to your post too, Silverbird.

Oh *lol* yes, I voted too - for landscapes. I had to decide between landscape and figure drawing. and landscape is what I really love and somehow it contains figure drawing...... I think.

Good post, Venus! Thank you for it.

Being one of the moderators Venus conferred with on this, I have to add my opinion as well.

There are no easy answers for art production. I see this forum as a learning place for many people, both beginners and advanced all who come here for various reasons. I don't believe that the purpose of this exercise is to make people draw, but to provide opportunities to stretch and learn in a non-threatening atmosphere without pressure to 'perform'.

Interactive classes provide an opportunity to learn new techniques and exercise new ideas, they are not designed to stifle creativity. Expression in art, I personally believe is not often there. Well it is, but more often, especially in the commercial world, it is a rarity. Images are created to sell or to please, either the client or the artist him/herself. There are many forms of art that may come across as artistic expression and that really isn't something that can be taught well.

Personal style comes into it as well, another thing that cannot be taught, it simply develops. Creativity is something that happens more on the spur of the moment in front of a canvas or blank sheet of paper. And even then, your forms, colours and mediums are based on a technique learned as fundamentals.

This exercise is the fundamentals. Not everyone will draw or participate but I believe strongly in offering opportunity to grow and talk as artists and individuals. Posting singularly in the gallery doesn't provide that opportunity and therefore I see the forum reverting to a chat based one where art doesn't remain at the forefront as it should. If I recall the portraiture class pulled people out of the woodwork and had them participate. Isn't that what art is all about?

Yes, it is. And a will to accept other styles, other opinions and other whatever.

Good to see that you are back here, Jeanette!

Precisely! And that is exactly what this board needs more of - classes. Brenda's lessons are fantastic. They are what draw thousands to this site. But there is nothing like an interactive class where guidance can be sought and received practically in real time.

I don't know if this board needs classes - but I need it! And I would love it.

This is something I have learned, if you research and prepare yourself to teach others, you will profit as much or more than your students. If you want a challenge, just pretend you are going to teach a course in a specific area of art.

I'm sure Brenda and most self-educated artists will agree with this.

i agree jeanette, i believe it has become alot of chat and i love to chat also, and love everyone here and to chat with everyone but i just havent had an interest in participating for awhile. im not sure why-- i thought it was just me. but i would love to have more classes, i really really enjoyed the portrait class. but i would love to see other classes as well. color pencils classes, maybe caricature class, or landscape class and i know this is a drawing forum but maybe a watercolor class, with the pen and ink, the reason why i dont particpate much on wetcanvas classes is because they are overwelming and by that i mean by the time i figure out were the class is and what to do so many pages are already up and the class has been going on for several several months and i have tried posting late and takes for ever to get a reply. thats why i like this forum because it is alot easier to know when classes would start so i can start from the beginning. and everyone is so helpful and not that they arent on the other but its just overwelming. but i would like to see more classes or something to participate. thats just my opinion
Lori

Lori, Ohhh I soo agree with you about wetcanvas. I tried to do the same and its to hard to keep up with others there. I also noticed that it seems to be in some forums a "click" type thing with the responses and such.Some of the people are awesome and nice others are not so nice in their wording and critisism. Kinda like stiff personalities. Thats just my opinion. Anyways, No, I don't think I worded my opening post very well when describing about Drawspace. I think faster than I type and my wording sometimes doesn't come out how I mean. If that makes sense?? I agree I really enjoyed the Portraits Class and love all of the ideas for the other possible classes.

yeah i that makes sense venus. i think we all do it. i guess what it all boils down to is maybe the need for more classes. though i love doing portraits, i am kind of looking for more, maybe the next step as in poses or different facial expressions, and if someone here new more about digital drawing or something then a class on that as well. i am still looking for a tutorial on painter 9 that i have. i am getting that book but i would really like a class on that. i know this is alot, but something like this would be great too.
Lori

Hi Lori ( I am Lorri as well) I tpp would like some lessons on digital drawing but the general outline I am getting from these posts is that expressive,more sensitive drawings can be done by line (how thick or thin ,soft or hard.depending what you want to express and by colour different colours express meanings and how you put the colours together. would you like me to do some examples?as that explains it easier.but try for yourself and watch the difference.
I am back from my travels and have some spectacular shots of New Zealand am going to be busy busy painting.cheers lorri.

hi lorri-- yeah i would like to see some examples. i am just learning about color. i have done a couple of portraits from color pencils. and my latest is a picture of the sprint car that my son races with his and my husbands portraits on it in graphite. i am posting it on comments thread.
Lori

Hi again Lori.as regards colour .......the colour spectrum has warm and cool colours .
the ones with the yellow hues are warm example red ,yellow and orange.on the cool spectrum there is blue
green and violet.the warm colours come towards you and the cool colours recede.its called colour perspective.There are great books on the subject.Borrow from the library.Colour perspective is important for landscape work.
I will get to today and do a few line drawings and post them up to try and explain expressive line..
regards Lorri.[attachmentid=4036] In the Stuart pea example can you see how the blue sky recedes and the orange jumps forward.thats colour perspective.cheers.

Hi Venus,
I thought maybe I'd throw my one and a half cents worth in, as I don't even have two cents worth to toss, haha. I am interested in a lot of areas in my head, but for the life of me, I just can't seem to get them on paper. Like landscapes for instance, I have some in my head, but do not know where to start. Like the portrait class we did that time, I did do enjoy that, as even if I didn't know how to put my intentions on paper, someone always had a helpful hint, or the correct way to get that done. I love drawing from a reference photo, but sometimes, I want to do a scene that's totally in my head, but have no clue as where to start. So, in order to do those types of things, I would need major help, with perspective, composition, etc. I know that's a lot to cover, and it applies to not just landscapes, but a lot of different areas as well. I guess what I'm trying to say is, if we had another class, where we could submit our works and in progress in a classroom setting, then I think for me anyway, I'd learn more, and have a tendency to stay on my work with more diligence. I need the structure of a class I guess. You and the others were so much help, when we did the portrait class, that I almost fear doing something by myself, without someone "holding my hand", so to speak, course, maybe I just want to hold hands with you, Anyway, that's my abstract thoughts. Sorry if I rambled, but that's how my brain works.

Jonsie

Jonsie you haven't rambled at all and what you said is worth much more than one and half cents!

I think most of us who have never had any formal art education feel exactly the same as you do. We have the ideas... we are slowly acquiring the skills... but we still need someone to show us the way to put it all together. Very often when I'm trying something new I feel like I'm reinventing the wheel when a little bit of expert advice would go such a long way to help me avoid all the trap falls.

Oh, and BTW, I don't mind at all having my hand held!

I have many done drawings Bond on paper, is the common paper that she is used in the offices for the printers, many of them would like to mount them with its crystal and frame but I have doubts if with time that papelse will put yellow or target stays.

It is very possible Adolfo that paper that is not acid free will go yellow over time yes. Framing it behind glass might just preserve at a little longer but eventually it will show it's age. I know Bond paper is a good quality paper that is resistant but I doubt that it is acid free.

Such a pity that any of your great drawing should have been done on anything but the best paper.

Hola adolfo

yo tambien uso papel de impresora para todos mis trabajos, y encontre que hay un papel que es alcalino, eso significa que es libre de acido por ello no se ponen amarillo.

I use this paper for printers too, I found a paper alkaline, this paper is acid free and not turn yellow over time.

Rafael

Gracias por sus amables consejos y sugerencias, Rafael me gustaría saber el nombre de ese papel, hace tiempo encontré unos bloks muy buenos de fabricación chilena pero no vienen mas, aun conservo un par de ellos son excelentes para acuarela y creyón, la marca es ARTEL.

Gracias por sus amables consejos y sugerencias, Rafael me gustaría saber el nombre de ese papel, hace tiempo encontré unos bloks muy buenos de fabricación chilena pero no vienen mas, aun conservo un par de ellos son excelentes para acuarela y creyón, la marca es ARTEL.

Adolfo

El nombre del papel es, digital paper marca xerox, es papel para fotocopiadoras e impresoras laser, yo lo uso para mi trabajo y para dibujar, con grafito y lapices de color funciona bien no lo he probado con otros medios, pero es un papel liso y resistente.

Como veras no es un papel diseñado especialmente para el arte, pero como en mi ciudad no consigo papel especial para dibujo tengo que improvisar, a lo mejor hay otras marcas para impresoras de inyección de tinta que pueda servir solo hay que ver si es alcalino.

espero te sirva la información

Rafael

I just found this wonderful discussion and would love to have more lessons in portrature, figure drawing, and color theory. I have learned so much from all of you and am so grateful.

Judyvan

Just incase people were not aware, I am in the process of starting the Figure Drawing class and hope to have it up and ready here very shortly. Sorry it is taking so long...