In the Drawing Challenge this week, BKLUVER rises again the pb of copyright. I would like to …copy the comments here for a continuous specific discussion on this topic, avoiding mixture with the drawings of the Challenge. I hope MMGALITZ will not be angry against me.
Here are the concerned comments:

1. BKLUVER: I've had some fun but I must get back to work so I will post what I did and leave it at that.
(here a drawing of Barbara)

2. MMGALITZ: Gee, I wish you'd post a bigger image of your drawing. It looks neat!

3. BKLUVER: Honestly, Marisa, I usually post my work in the smaller size because I would prefer that my artwork not be downloaded and this site does not have the capability to lock your images. (Sorry if some of you don't agree with that - I feel each of you has a right to say who can download your work because once a work of art is completed the copyright is in effect and it IS your work.) So, if I make it small there is probably not the interest in downloading it. But, I will enlarge this one in the original post.

4. NVA: Barbara, One day, I forgot to log in, and opened the DS. I saw that all the drawings have been downloaded several times. You can open the DS that way (in logout status) to see how many times your work (in big or small size) has been downloaded

5. BKLUVER: Yes. That's why I usually upload my work in a very small size. The downloads won't be any larger than what I upload so I don't think anyone would be tempted to print and frame my work as their own.

I don't know if everyone realizes it but it is illegal to download and print another persons artwork without permission. With these days of the internet it is so easy to think, because it is on your screen and your computer says you can copy or print, that it is there for your taking. If you don't know the law (or care) it seems okay. But, it's not. The only exceptions are work that is in the public domain. I try hard to teach my students the copyright laws, particularly pertaining to the internet. (I know Brenda also posted information about copyright laws.)

Although there are exceptions for the purpose of education there are still laws even about the completed works taken from another piece for study. A piece you draw (example-since we are in a drawing forum) from the work of someone else can not be shown in a public display such as an art exhibit. That includes art displays on the internet.

On this site, the host of the drawing challenge is giving permission to copy and/or print photographs for use as a reference in drawing. But, the finished pieces of art belong to each artist who takes part and uploads finished work and it is all copyright protected. I do think it would be a good addition to this site if they would make it possible to lock images so they cannot be downloaded. Even though this is an educational site and everyone is learning from others, it should only be as it can be seen on the computer. Brenda has you pay for the right to print her work for her actual lessons.
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[quote name='NVA' date='Jun 17 2009, 09:57 AM' post='76416']
In the Drawing Challenge this week, BKLUVER rises again the pb of copyright. I would like to …copy the comments here for a continuous specific discussion on this topic, avoiding mixture with the drawings of the Challenge. I hope MMGALITZ will not be angry against me.


This is a big (and largely discussed) topic. The French gov tried, since years, to create a law against copying music in the internet. I think if we can, for some specific works, lock the images as you suggest, then many of us will be more willing to publish finished work, for the benefit of all. Of course, nobody will lock everything !

are you guys THAT GOOD? people are stealing your work? hunh? I haven't heard of anyone elses work being stolen from here..there is a way you can place your name over your artwork so they get that too if they choose to steal it. I never realized it was a problem

ya know barb, I never knew that, i have never seen this part till you told me. wow..that is interesting

I just looked up:

Recent Attachments Attached File
wooden_spoked_wheel1.JPG ( 62.22K ) Number of downloads: 22
Attached File My_Work_Hat1.jpg ( 32.51K ) Number of downloads: 28
Attached File Oil_Lantern_Color1.jpg ( 44.73K ) Number of downloads: 50
Attached File Duke1.jpg ( 85.17K ) Number of downloads: 45
Attached File hands1.jpg ( 51.18K ) Number of downloads: 42

I have no idea, who download my files !

if it done to look at it more closely to study how something was done = that`s okay !!!

You all have to remember.. any time someone clicks on an image to look at it.. they download it to their local hard drive.. that is how the web browser works.. every image you ever see when browsing the internet is on your hard drive! Even images that say they are locked on sites that provide that ability are on your hard drive and you can find them if you know where to look. I don't have the answers, but water marks are a good option, small photos are a help and if you are really concerned don't post it if you don't want someone to use it..

Yep.. but there are so many more important things to worry about in this world.. and millions of other things that are far more sad..

I wish everyone in the world had a computer and Internet access, and all would enjoy my drawings enough to "download" them. Maybe many of them would rather have an original.

Bobby

That is what makes it interesting and engaging!

[quote name='bkluver' date='Jun 17 2009, 04:21 PM' post='76553']
My goodness, I think it is so funny how the topics raised for discussion always end up being something totally not what the original intent of the post was about.

Barbara, it is often the case. Don't feel hurt! The reactions are various and quite interesting!

I continue to think that, from time to time, we may have an artwork that we like to show, but we are somewhat not willing that people download the work.

Airscapes is correct in most cases download of you image indicate how many times your image has been looked at, but you never know who has right clicked and then saved your image for later use. You can put a water mark across your image or use a smaller image...there is also some code (I've heard, but haven't used) that blocks people from right clicking on your image.

Laura

Well I looked at mine and I have many downloaded or viewed files ....no big deal to me in the least .. I want people to see something challengening and take a closer look .. I have done it myself with some of your guys art lol ...Bobby has awsome portraits so I have downloaded some of his work and taken a better look to try and better my results .

also if their is a image that you want to protect the best way is watrermark it ...and make it small ..I have a program on my pc that can take any image even with the code to block you and steal it ...and if it has a water mark and is a large image i can get around that as well ...so smaller like no bigger then 5x7 and water mark it will protect it the best .

I will also add that I do not find anywhere on the net that downloading a image to your computer is in anyway breaking a copy right law ...to take that image and print it and use it for your use only ...I find nothing . but to publish or distribute or use in a add ect.. is breaking the copy right law .

I think many people will now from time to time look at their posts to see how many times they have been loaded, and what have been most loaded! Thank for loading, hihi !!!

Thank you, Barbara. The long text shows how the pb is difficult. Beyond the modest situation of our DS, this general discussion is interesting. In France, the gov wants to drop the internet access to those who copy music in the internet, but this punishment is not accepted by the comite constitutionnel (equivalent to the american supreme court). Also, some editors ask that making multiple copies in classroom be prohibited, because the students will not buy their books.

what about the 'dont ask dont tell' policy..most times i use pics from the inet to draw, (course i only practice) and change it up enough so no one can really tell where my reference came from..or say with certainty that i used their photo..

To contribute to the discussion : Of course, many artists took inspiration from old masters in their creations. Van Gogh from Millet, Picasso from several masters, etc, but only the idea was copied, not the drawing. The problem is the relative parts of your contribution and of the old work.

I have never seen an art gallery which mix creations and (faithful) copies of the master. Most galleries mention explicitely : copies not accepted.

lol...i am lightyears away from an artshow..in fact I dont think I should ever be good enough for that, I mostly like to fiddle and **** around and learn new things. As for selling, years ago I sold two indians and that is pretty much all i ever sold or probably ever will.

that is not a swear word, just so you guys know, i didnt swear

are you sure download really means download.. sometimes just opening to view can be considered a download to a computer.. it might not even be as it appears..

I am sure this will not change the minds of many BUT I went a bit farther and called a Copy Right Law firm in Grand Rapids Michigan....here is what they have to say on this issue .

To copy from your computer a image ..drawing ect..and keep for your own ..you are not breaking the law .
To copy from your computer and use for a flier or a add or to even gift it out would be unlawful .

The Firm I spoke with had just been to a seminar on this exact issue .

when I told her of our situation and topic and that I did not understand the copy right laws that were posted in the forum ...she stated that in doing so that was concidered unlawful ..to take ANYTHING...art or copy right laws ect...and use them for anything other then yourself is unlawful.

So this issue can go on and on and many will fear downloading ...but truely if you do not intend to sell or hand out someones work then enjoy and DOWNLOAD lol

Reminder : posting images in challenges would be concidered unlawful if these images were not yours even if giving the artist or photographers names ..providing a name does not make it ok .
Now will they arrest you ...No lol but Drawspace has always encouraged members to use their own images for challenges .

I will add that if you wish to show a photo or a drawing done by another or even the list Copy Right Laws just post the link to where it can be found ..this way no laws are broken and you are viewing it where it was intended on being viewed.

Dlewis is right ...just viewing a image leaves a imprint so to say on the hard drive ...something you have no control over what so ever .

I hope this helps clear that up ....

This is all rather embarrasing, because I've downloaded everybodies works of art and I have a thriving business down at the local market! Guess I'll have to get a proper job again now!

Once upon a time someone painted an apple. Since then nobody was allowed to do the same, because of these incredible laws. LOL.

I just say this, copyright issues are a serious topic and any one making fun of this shows disrespect for the posted views of one or more of the members of this site who raised legitimate concerns about copyright.It's a shame to read the mockery of some members!

There is nothing wrong with having a different opinion. But it's insulting to show contempt for other people's views.

First off I am not trying to insult anyone or taking anything out of context I just wanted to point those facts out so others are not confused ...people get very passionate about this subject I am not trying to debate this with anyone I for one wanted facts so I called a expert Law Firm whom deal with this daily .

I poke no fun at the copy right laws and issues and I do not feel anyone here has done so ..I have great respect for the Laws .

elena , i dont feel anyone was mocking anyone, we are simply having a lil fun with the subject, no one needs to look for trouble where there is none

I find the issues raised by Barbara and An documented, serious, valid here or elsewhere in the web, They ask questions and expect answers. Any joke or fun on this shows to me disrespect for their point.

the questions were answered ...now please enough really to keep this going on.. the whole respect thing is just creating trouble where there is none .
Elena you are easly offended or troubled please you speak so much about being able to give your opinion then please as I said in your email ....listen to others .

Elena, I too think that the topic is serious, but if Kay, Kim, or Songsparrow want to have some fun with this, there is really no problem.
I'm told that a blogger has repeatedly posted photos of some works of a master. He was contacted by the heirs and has to remove immediately all the photos. Things were even worse, but I don't have the details.

You really need to lighten up a bit.. speaking of jokes!

The Pope dies and goes to heaven. When he gets there, Saint Peter shows him to his new quarters which turn out to be a tiny one bedroom apartment.

The Pope is horrified and wants to know why he doesn’t have the penthouse apartment, which is huge.

Saint Peter informs him that the resident of the penthouse is a lawyer.

“A lawyer,” says the Pope. “But I’m the Pope, surely I’m more important.”

“With respect Sir,” says Saint Peter, “We have lots of Pope’s up here, but we only have ONE lawyer and she was a copyright lawyer !”

..hehehehe I added that last part just for FUN!!!

NVA yes copy right is serious when it is being broken .. no one has done nothing wrong here that I know of so why people seem to keep this drama going is beyound me .

If myself or the other Admin or Mod members thought someone was breaking a copy right law we would handle it as Brenda would want .

People need to lighten up a bit ..just because we " lol " or say something to ease the tension in the thread does not mean that we do not feel it is serious ...people need not judge others so quickly .

from what I understand internet copyrights are not the same as others. that is why there was such a problem with pirating.

as far as I have understood some of the basics are. anything you post on the net is public domain and can be downloaded, printed and copied. where the legal problem comes in is when you redistribute, sell or pass it off as your own. eg it is not illegal to download copyrighted music or movies. it is illegal to post them and make them available for download without permission.
search up all the lawsuit scare stuff from when the music industry was suing people and you'll see I'm right.



a good way to stay safe is anything you download never leaves your possession and even better your home. If you don't want it downloaded never ever post it.

this is also how employers are given the right to check out everything you ever put on the web and use it against you. the net is not at all private it is as public as running down the street naked.

on another note. if you are so scared of being copied you may as well never show your work to anyone because it will eventually happen. all you can do is hope anyone that does copy it uses it legally and if they don't take legal action.

Thank you, Redfury. You say things clearly.

To put it briefly, if it was illegal to download information and pictures from the Internet then we would not have a legal Internet, because the technology demands that text and picture be downloaded to the computers of all who use the Internet.

Therefore the laws must deal with what is done with the information and pictures.

Bobby

Sorry redfury but you are wrong. If you download music or movies, even if they are for your own personal use, that is theft. UNLESS the music or movie in question has been specifically placed in the public domain by the copyright owners. If you think that's wrong, have a look here. You can't walk into a record shop and demand a copy of a record for your own personal use. If you download your complete record collection without paying for it, then that is theft. Pure and simple. And the creators of the music and movies you download and watch for free don't get paid. That makes for bad business. Making a movie involves a lot of work from a lot of people, and usually a huge capital investment. If we all downloaded it for free, who pays for the next movie?

Kazaa i believe was gone after a while back like one of the first cases ....people will continue to down load movies ...songs .. art ...as long as it is made available ..if they want it to stop then somehow block it so the songs can not uploaded in the first place .

If you go on youtube you can find almost all of bette Midlers songs ecept one Baby of mine is the name ...many have it but its blocked ..or some say its she singing but it is not her ...She or her producers or someone with her had it blocked because people were downloading it and putting it on cds for like a babies birth and then putting them back on youtube . if she can blosck that then why were her other songs unblocked ? I do not think anyone is going to jail over this either ...I think they tried but it really did not pan out . But then again I did not look it up to check either . Just my thoughts .

“It is human nature to want to exchange ideas, and I believe that, at bottom,every artist wants no more than to tell the world what he has to say”
- Dutch illustrator M.C. Escher

Exchanging ideas is what it is all about. You made several interpretations of GWPE. You used it as a study object or just wanted to copy? Did you break any laws? As far as I followed your posts, you tried to find the essence of this painting and made various versions in different media.

Maybe in the USA this is a big topic, but I live in Europe, where we do not steal each others work, but are inspired by each other.

I have some drawings in my gallery and placed a few of my own pictures in the inspirational galleries. They are all free to use for all of you to use as inspiration. Of course I would appreciate a message from you when they are used but for me it is of no importance make a deal of the copyrights.

Drawspace is, as far as I know, made for people who like to draw and do not have the illusion to be ever presented in the Hermitage. So, if you inspire me by your work, and I can give you some ideas, than Drawspace reached its goal.

I totally agree that violation of the copyright laws over the Internet is a serious issue with a lot of people. In fact some Internet service providers will terminate your account with them if they decide you are in violation of copyright laws and the complainant has evidence that you have violated their rights under the laws.

I was only speaking from my perspective. I have been accused of being too generous.

Bobby.

this topic is always a hot topic ...its been said once before why stir up trouble where there is none .

Whats this topic really about anyways . ?

I have done a bit more research and apparently the laws have recently changed. At first downloading was completely legal. But here I believe it is understood that images are downloaded and used for educational purposes.

However, I still stand by the idea that if you are so frightened of someone stealing your work don't show it to anyone not even your mother. My 6 year old breaks copyright laws by attempting to reproduce what I do, if you wish to take the law literally.

I have not yet posted any of my stuff yet but let it be said that when I do anyone may copy or reproduce my work in any way they want. I believe when it comes to art when it is reproduced it changes to reflect the personality and style of the one reproducing it becoming an original of its own.

Breath in ......Breath out ......lol

lol..that is funny Kim.. Cees, well said, I dont know why anyone worried about such a matter would want to take part in a public gallery that was designed for us to learn, where we can study each other as much as we like..I would never steal anything, but I have admired and studied many artist and their style here on drawspace, and if not for them I would not be growing as I am..Those who are very skilled should want us to view their work closely, not hoard it to their chest, if so why be in a public 'learning' place/community

I should like to thank you artist both the highly skilled and the beginners, I learn from both of you..
In pencil, I have studied long and hard mr. burchams work, Kevins work, Carols work and many others, I have learned much by doing so..
In watercolor, I study adolfo, vano, and a couple of others, It was vano's work in figures that inspired me so much.
In colored pencil, there is Kim, Jim, Jeanette, and others, that I study.

from beginners I learn from Alexa, tannis, and a host of others, I adore how much emotion Alexa can convey in a little ball..I love that.

I thank each of you for all you have taught me, by posting your work here on drawspace and sharing it with us and allowing me to study it,

Thanks.

Kay that's why I like you so much .. you beautiful, soulful, cheerful person you !!!

She is .....Thank you Kay for the kind words to all ..including the beginners because it is true ....we learn from all artist some little trick .

Yeh. And great legs.

them legs were 20 yrs ago steve

That's OK, I've got 53 year old eyes.

LOl your funny steve .

Click to view attachment

He is such a hoot, i love the sense of humor he has, he really brightens up the boards and drawspace, we love ya steve