I joined because this WAS a place to learn about Art, and even I think I was born with talent, but someone said Natural talent doesn't exist. Well, to tell you, it does. I know I have it, cuase everyone in my Family draws and my Mom knows how to draw, those things called um, let's see, abilies, are passed down from generation to generation and the ability is called a gift.

I accept everyones tips and comments, advice all that and I like all peoples art. I think anyone can draw , even if you don't have the talent. I'm not trying to say that you couldn't, or that you couldn't get as good as those that do. It's all about showing up to practice. So now I'm kinda mad and I don't want to be here becuase you think that, someone might just look at me and think I'm lying about being a 3 month old experianced Artist, knowing what was bad in her drawing and what isn't.

I know some people are far better then me here, but I just know I have it and reading that, was just not true what you said about Talent. God gives everyone a talent , you have to find it, and once found, you can use it. I don't like feeling like I'm being descriminated, cuase I think my Talent is Art, yet you try to show it all off, like your talented. Doesn't make any sence. thanks.

Wow, someone who really needed to be understood got slammed to the ground. Shame on everyone here that let this happen. Sorry your leaving. I think you may be right about talent to some extent. But in another way not. Here is what I mean and I hope you stick around long enough to read this Sonyaz. I think that everyone has a right brain and if it is used to draw anyone can draw well unless there is real brain damage. So no talent is needed to draw from the right brain cause it is what it does all day long. But I also believe there is a genetic propensity in which some can access the right brain more readily than others. That would be the talent part. Finally, (and I have no data to support any of this) if you practice accessing that right brain you get better at bringing it into play in order to do good drawing. Anyway, if you do leave this board Sonyaz, I hope you keep on drawing. Good luck.

Whoa now Calvin. I think before you start going around and shaming on all of us, you need to look at a few facts here. First off, Sonya has posted exactly twice on this forum. First was a simple line thanking Brenda for the lessons. It can be found in the pinned topic "Lesson dowloads/views increased" if you want to verify that. The second one was this tirade.

Secondly, if you look at her gallery, not one person has left a negative comment. Not one. She stated,



It is possible that someone sent her a PM totally at random telling her that natural talent doesn't exist, but this is highly unlikely. I have read Brenda's book and most of the lessons in section A of the website, and don't recall a single instance in which she stated that natural talent doesn't exist--though it may be possible. However, this doesn't fit in with Sonya's statement that "someone comes to me."

The fact is, drawing is a skill, and anyone can learn to draw. And the fact is also that everyone is born with the ability to draw. All children can draw, but not all children have the desire to stick with it and develop the skill further. The ability to draw is not an elitist thing. Anyone can learn to do it, and do it reasonably well.

This type of post is typical of trolls. Let's let this one die.

P.S. Sonya, hunny, NO ONE is ever going to think you are lying about having only three months of experience at drawing.

Im sorry you feel that way hun .. in my opinion and this is just my opinion of course so im not slatting any one here .. i feel that we all have the ability to draw sketch paint etc personally i have never "been taught" but saying that i have learnt how to master certain techniques through other peoples work. we can all draw a stick figure easy but to really master how to draw a person we have to learn certain techniques to make that stick figure look like a person .. it took me a long time to actually see out side the box so to speak and draw what often isnt there to make the drawing more life like.. we are not born with this know how we have to learn it through what ever means is understandable to that particular person .. some will "get it" straight away where as some others it takes time and effort.. i was drawing from the time i could hold a pencil but it was no picaso.. we have to learn how to paint/draw like him learn the techniques like i said some it will come easy for them but others will take time to master it .. i hope that helps

I agree with Isshinart that this may be a Mole. I cannot see someone from our group purposefully berating another member without properly introducing themselves and first offering the constructive criticism. My initial guess was that she read the Talent lesson that Brenda posted and she disagreed with comments discussed in there. Anyway, as Isshinart mentioned, she isn't fully justified in her ranting anyway due to the limited postings she put in so far.

Eric

Thank you very much to the wonderful members who handled this matter so very kindly and diplomatically. I suspect Sonya’s comments are directed toward me, and while I respect her opinions, I’m so very sorry that she feels upset. I could easily delete Sonya’s post, but, I’d rather thank her for bringing forth this intelligent and highly informative discussion. Nonetheless, I have taken the liberty of editing her post so as to remove any aspects that others may consider offensive.

So as to clarify my personal perspective on this topic, following are quotes from my books that basically state my interpretations of the word talent (as it pertains to drawing), and of right brain functions.

Drawing is the application of an art medium to a surface so as to produce an image, which visually defines an artist’s choice of drawing subjects from his or her own unique perspectives.

The act of drawing people hasn’t changed since prehistoric humans drew on the walls of caves. The ability to draw shouldn’t be credited to an inborn talent. Strong drawing skills come to those who put forth the committed effort required to learn. This is why I firmly believe that everyone can learn how to draw!

I often feel uncomfortable when well meaning friends tell me I am talented. Their assumption is that I am doing something innately extraordinary. In fact, I have worked hard to get to my current level of technical competence. Therefore, I consider the ability to draw as an accomplishment rather than a talent.

I consider talent to be a process of self-discovery, throughout which you acknowledge and embrace your ability to become exceptional. With a personal commitment, patience, and dedication you can develop your talent for drawing.

(Page 6, The Complete Idiot’s Guide to Drawing People)


“Seeing as an artist” isn’t a magical ability or a genetic gift. You can easily access this skill. All you need is the right side of a brain, an open mind, and a little patience.

Our education system emphasizes the importance of left-brain functions. This is logical when you realize that the left-brain controls most mathematical and verbal skills. As a result, many persons are left-brain dominant.

Many of the perceptive skills needed for drawing are processed by the right brain. Left-brain thinking is analytical and verbal. Right-brain thinking is visual and perceptive. Exercising some dormant abilities of your right brain helps you to draw better.

Many aspects of your brain need to work together with your vision when you draw. My philosophy is that both sides of your brain play an equally important role in drawing.

Right Brain
Sees relationships and likenesses between shapes and spaces.
Is intuitive, insightful and creative.
Combines various visual elements to form a whole image.
Plans composition instinctively
Has little concept of time.
Allows distractions to be blocked out.
Is aware of the process of drawing in a non-narrative context.

Left Brain
Uses mathematical logic to establish proportion such as drawing a grid.
Plans a composition according to the rules of composition
Names the parts of the object you are drawing
Analyzes the step-by-step procedures of composing a drawing.
Is aware of and analyzes time frames
Assigns a verbal sequential order to drawing.

(Chapter 4, Drawing for Dummies)

I’d love to hear more opinions on right and left brain functions and interpretations of the word talent.


Brenda

You mean to tell me I have a brain .. sorry Brenda im just kidding

But seriously though If every one was born with such talents wouldnt this world be a dreary place because we wouldnt be able to appriciate what art/music/poetry is really all about.. we have the ability in us all but its
something that we have to find within us i think like i said in my post we can all do it but it just needs bringing out if we chose to and some of us fine it easier than others so we have to work harder at it .. I find that sometimes i dont get it right not just the first time but hundreds of tries i give up for a while then when i feel able to cope with it i try again .. i have soooo many unfinished pieces of art piling up but im sure i will get round to finishing them one day when i have found a way round my problem this site was a god send as i have read some of the lessons and they have given me some great solutions to many of my problems .. and i call myself an astablished artist .. we are always learning its what art is all about .. did i go off track again

Oh, wow! I don't know whether SonjaZ is a troll or not but I certainly identified with what Brenda has said. Like Woo, I've been drawing and painting since I was old enough to hold a pencil/crayons/paintbrush but I wasn't good at it back then (& probably not considered great at it today! lol)

I also think anyone can learn to draw/paint but one has to have enough interest in it to be willing to invest the time & effort in learning. Perhaps some of us are more inclined to do that than others - is that a right brain/left brain sort of thing? I don't know. I do know that whether I'm good or bad at art, it's something I have to do in some form or another. I do have an art business but even if no one ever bought a single painting, I'd still paint for myself & I think that's basically what makes an artist a real artist.

I'm probably a lot older than most everyone here from the tone of some of the posts from members, but I've tried to never stop learning. I recently joined here because for the past 40 years or so, I've done little actual drawing and I know that's so very foundational for any other art media. I felt I could really benefit from being here since I was never properly taught to draw in the first place.

Anyway, I'm so thankful that Brenda has opened this site. It's got to hard to put up with negative comments and ungrateful people but I certainly hope the rest of us who really do appreciate her will step forward and say so. Maybe we can make up for the ones who are so outspokenly critical.

Thank you, Brenda! (Well, I looked for one of those clapping emoticons/smilies but didn't see one - you're getting a big round of applause even if you can't hear or see it though!)

J

I think anyone can learn to draw if he puts the time and effort into it. I also believe that there are those who naturally lean more toward artistic expression, and those who naturally lean more towards the scientific and mathematical expression. Those who lean more toward the artistic are the ones who are going to put forth the effort to learn to draw and paint. That doesn't mean the left brainers can't learn to draw too, but they are less likely to try.

What I don't believe is that the ability to draw is an innate thing and either you have it or you don't. All children can draw. It's the adults who have lost their faith in their own abilities. So many times I hear people say, "I can't draw anything but stick people." And I ask them when was the last time they tried to draw. The response is usually something like "I don't try because I know I can't do it."

Now, the original poster claimed to have "natural talent" because everyone in her family drew. My belief is that an environment such as this is very conducive to nurturing artistic ability. Seeing her family--her parents drawing all the time would naturally encourage such an interest in her. It is this, rather than any natural talent that has led her to begin drawing.

Several things lead me to believe that Sonya is still a child, and as such doesn't truly understand the difference between nature and nurture and the complex interactions between the two that make us who we are. Therefore I didn't even respond when she posted. My reacton was toward the one who implied that we should be ashamed of ourselves for making her feel this way. No one on this board had been anything but encouraging toward everyone who has posted. To imply that we would deliberately hurt someone who is here to learn just got under my skin.

I think my right brain has taken over at work! Suddenly that empty desk calendar that everything lays on top of and nothing gets written on it, has turned into a great big canvas. I can't stop doodling now. Many times working on the Servers and PCs at work you have times where you must sit there and watch paint dry!

Well I'm not watching anymore, I'm making paint. I have already covered the calendar for May, June and almost all of July so far with doodles. Pics that I see on the Internet, training lessons and techniques from other sites, hatchings and crosshatchings, and just plain picking something out in the room and drawing it. I even take objects and place them in a different position either high or low and draw them next to the other one to show changes in perspective.

Before this, I would sit there bored stiff wondering when the stupid PC would give me back control of my resources so I could continue with my next task. I hope there isn't something seriously wrong with me. Should I go see a doctor? No wait, I might end up drawing in the waiting room. Oh no, help me!

Happy in Doodleland!
Eric

I want to live in doodleland sounds like fun.. even doodles are art .. i tend to doodle while im on the phone and not really pay much attention to what im drawing until i come off the phone .. its usually a vase or circles .. some times its eyes .. no idea why i do this could it be that a certain part of my brain just switches itself on when im having a boring conversation on the phone and my drawing side takes over

Folks,

My experience has been that on every Forum or Mailing List I am in, there is always something askew.
Here, it is not an unusual experience but as one would say a "run of the mill'" encounter.

Talent is inborn and applies to every phase of life. The '60 Minutes' TV program has over the years featured persons with inborn talent in activities that astound us, for example, a kid at 3 years old playing the piano and not having been taught the key-notes, or the blind kids equally playing classical tunes on the piano and not being taught the key-notes of the piano.

Art is no exception. Persons are born with that innate abilty and excel in their works through that natural ability coupled with practical observations and established lines of instruction. How much time did Picasso spend in 'art classes'? Very little, for he realized soon that he was way ahead of the instructor through his inborn ability....And what about the 'self-taught' artists? With very little talent, they worked hard at mastering techniques, diligently applied themselves and made themselves famous.

Art like any other discipline is not purely talent.
It is mastering that talent, building strengths on enthusiasm and interest, and being able to exhibit learning.
That some will do better than others is a known.
That some will give up through frustration at not being outstanding is also a known.
That some will persevere and achieve satisfaction and be proud of accomplishments, is as well a known.

I am in the last category for I intend to persevere and be proud of my accomplishments even if they are only within my limited view.
So far I am satisfied with what I can now do as compared to what I could not do before I embarked on this activity.
No talent. No inborn skill. Only a willingness to learn and do well.

Yep...! ..at meetings I do doodle and amazingly I do not lose trend of the discussions for I intervene from time to time!
Trouble is someone always wants to see 'my art work', when the meeting is over!

Artistaulta
August 15, 2006

Some people do have a natural ability at art. All the women in my family are naturally talented artists. My mum loves to paint, my sisters used to be wonderful a few years ago, but they've stopped drawing, and I'm not so bad myself. But it's nothing magical and nothing that can't be learned by everyone.

I remember the day when I started to see things from an 'artists point of view'. When I was finally able to look at a face and not just see a face, but the shapes, lines and tones I'd need to put down on paper to recreate it. My artwork has improved drastically since then. It's just a case of overcoming that hurdle and stopping your brain from telling you what you should see, and actually seeing it for yourself.

I think all you need to become a good artist is a will to persevere and succeed, patience, and experience. I have a friend who loves my art and he constantly wishes he could "draw like me". I sat him down a few times and told him pretty much what I've written here, and I explained to him how he has to see things and that all he has to do is keep on trying. He did try for a little while, but he kept on falling into the same traps. You know, a face is an oval with two almonds for eyes and a nose goes here, and no matter who they are trying to draw, they just follow those rigid guidelines and it looks like nobody. He gave up after a few weeks because he wasn't getting any better, but he wasn't trying to change his technique. I think it's such a shame because he has the heart for it, he has good control of his hand and pencil, he just had to be able to see.

patience has to be our biggest allie where being an artist is concerned, art isnt instant unless its a quick doodle or small cartoon and one that you are familiar with.. it takes time and even more time to master certain techniques so that you can become quicker but even astablished artsits dont always get it right the first time ... I hope your friend dosnt give up

He's already given up. I'd try to encourage him but I haven't seen him for a few months now

And patience is very important. So many times I've almost given up on a drawing in the early stages but just carried on and turned it into something I'm rather proud of... I don't let myself give up on drawings now

I supose it can be harder for an adult to get started in this crazy world of art .. thats why ive already started teaching my 2 and 3 year old grandaughters and encourage them to draw when ever they can .. i dont think that their mum is going to thank me when they start drawing on the walls though but they can always stick a frame over them instant picture ..and when my one year old grandaughter starts to hold a pencil instead of trying to eat it then i shall start encouraging her too ... i taught both my children to draw at a very young age .. my son now designs tattoos and my daughter is a digital artist .. both very good at what they do .. I'm so proud..
its very odd as i dont come from a family of artists im the only one of 8 that actually became artistic althugh my mother is a published poet small time though

Ummm You shouldnt Judge us like that!
we are all Equal!!! to eachother and No one is better then the other!!

Oh man i have run out of Chill pills to give you!! come on Smile!! the art world can be Rough
and you have a long way to go you are only a Begginer artist it will take time for you to get to the Professioanl level of artwork! u have to work! though each stage and u cant go higher then your level of art work you have to get though the levels at one step at a time we all get there if we keep going! and not give up!! and Dont forget that ones self is Not Higher then the next artist!!
you need to come to understand this and apply it to your self if you dont you will get Hit and hurt in the art world

we are all at diffent levels in our art Joureny!! and here to help others and support others along the Journey!!

WOO Oh MY LIFE YOU HAVE MADE MORE POSTS THE BREADA HAS ! Bless ya i this site its so cool!! its the best that i know we are so lucky that we have it

i know lol but i have a little time on my hands as i cant do any art at the moment as its all packed away.. and when im not decorating this is far the best place to occupy my mind .. because of my illness i can only manage a couple of hours decorating before i get too tired

I UNDERSTAND ITS OK I CANT EVEN DO PAINTING THE FLAT THING I WILL BE IN BED FOR A FEW MONTHS

Definitions of talent on the Web:

endowment: natural abilities or qualities
a person who possesses unusual innate ability in some field or activity
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

I thought this was kind of an interesting definition of the word talent. Natural abilites being the key phrase here. I once read that everyone has the "ablity" to do most anything. But that social and environmental conditioning develop these to different degrees in different people. Plus some folks are right brain dominant and some are left brain dominant. So if talent is actually applied as defined..then everyone on this forum is a talented artist . And art is all in the perception of the individual anyways! Wickedly cool huh?