My grade 9 teacher said that when you smudge its a cheat to shading. I thought it made the object look smooth and the gradient between the values blend so it looks like one piece.
Is this true?
Full Version: Is smudging a cheat to shading.
no it is not...what is with teachers these days? what would a charcoal artist do with out it, pencil artist?
Any time I hear of an art "teacher" (and that, alas, is what 99% of them are - not teachers, but merely "teachers") telling people that this or that are "cheating", I feel like reaching for a taser.
It's a good idea to try to establish different values by shading, and I'd also suggest that if you are using smudging, do so lightly and using a tissue rather than your fingers (it's better to avoid getting oils from your skin on the drawing). - but "cheating"? - No.
My friend David Kassan lightly smudges with a tissue when he draws in graphite pencil. He builds up "washes" of blocks of tone in pencil by lightly hatching going with the directions of the form, may then smudge slightly with a tissue, then goes back in on that area again laying in more tone if he needs to darken it further.
See http://davidkassan.com/images/eye.jpg for one of his pencil drawings.
Dave
It's a good idea to try to establish different values by shading, and I'd also suggest that if you are using smudging, do so lightly and using a tissue rather than your fingers (it's better to avoid getting oils from your skin on the drawing). - but "cheating"? - No.
My friend David Kassan lightly smudges with a tissue when he draws in graphite pencil. He builds up "washes" of blocks of tone in pencil by lightly hatching going with the directions of the form, may then smudge slightly with a tissue, then goes back in on that area again laying in more tone if he needs to darken it further.
See http://davidkassan.com/images/eye.jpg for one of his pencil drawings.
Dave
laughing at the taser idea .. if we tasered them every time a teacher said something beyound their education to a child at their prime time for learning we may not be having this conversation lol .
not cutting teachers ....I do have respect but like so many of them they just go too far .
not cutting teachers ....I do have respect but like so many of them they just go too far .
My suggestion for using smudging or any other "technique" is do it if it helps create the "texture" you wish to create. It's all about texture. I have at the least three very extreme examples in my gallery. Vincent Price needed to be pure lines and no smudging. An African lady needed to be drawing with squirkles, or irregular circles, but most of the children and women need to be layered or smudged. Just what ever works to create the texture you desire is right, in my opinion.
Bobby
Bobby
QUOTE (dcorc @ Jul 18 2009, 04:48 PM) 
Any time I hear of an art "teacher" (and that, alas, is what 99% of them are - not teachers, but merely "teachers") telling people that this or that are "cheating", I feel like reaching for a taser.
It's a good idea to try to establish different values by shading, and I'd also suggest that if you are using smudging, do so lightly and using a tissue rather than your fingers (it's better to avoid getting oils from your skin on the drawing). - but "cheating"? - No.
My friend David Kassan lightly smudges with a tissue when he draws in graphite pencil. He builds up "washes" of blocks of tone in pencil by lightly hatching going with the directions of the form, may then smudge slightly with a tissue, then goes back in on that area again laying in more tone if he needs to darken it further.
See http://davidkassan.com/images/eye.jpg for one of his pencil drawings.
Dave
It's a good idea to try to establish different values by shading, and I'd also suggest that if you are using smudging, do so lightly and using a tissue rather than your fingers (it's better to avoid getting oils from your skin on the drawing). - but "cheating"? - No.
My friend David Kassan lightly smudges with a tissue when he draws in graphite pencil. He builds up "washes" of blocks of tone in pencil by lightly hatching going with the directions of the form, may then smudge slightly with a tissue, then goes back in on that area again laying in more tone if he needs to darken it further.
See http://davidkassan.com/images/eye.jpg for one of his pencil drawings.
Dave
wow your friend is good I like the drawing alot.
Thanks i agree thats its not a cheet sometimes i think lightly it makes the picture look nicer. I probably will have her again in grade 10 for art. and its hard not smudge it with a tissue and i dnt want to lose marks i guess for now i have to listen to her. butdoesn't mean i can't do it on my own art
QUOTE (kim1963 @ Jul 18 2009, 06:13 PM)
laughing at the taser idea .. if we tasered them every time a teacher said something beyound their education to a child at their prime time for learning we may not be having this conversation lol .
not cutting teachers ....I do have respect but like so many of them they just go too far .
not cutting teachers ....I do have respect but like so many of them they just go too far .
lol kim
i guess she sees it different but she is an amazing teacher i love her to death, she inspired me and me reach my goal and never gave up on me. thats the only thing i didnt like ths mudgin
QUOTE (bobbyburcham @ Jul 18 2009, 09:05 PM)
My suggestion for using smudging or any other "technique" is do it if it helps create the "texture" you wish to create. It's all about texture. I have at the least three very extreme examples in my gallery. Vincent Price needed to be pure lines and no smudging. An African lady needed to be drawing with squirkles, or irregular circles, but most of the children and women need to be layered or smudged. Just what ever works to create the texture you desire is right, in my opinion.
Bobby
Bobby
that is very true thank you bobby
Back in my art school days, my teachers also used to be somewhat against smudging. They didn't call it cheating, but rather a technique that lacks expressive freshness (I was wondering how to put it in English They encouraged us to emphasize the shape with accurate, precise and however small but still visible lines.. I do like the effect of lines more... they can show the direction and the curve and also are more expressive and dynamic.
But it's everyone's own choice...
They encouraged us to emphasize the shape with accurate, precise and however small but still visible lines.. I do like the effect of lines more... they can show the direction and the curve and also are more expressive and dynamic. But it's everyone's own choice...
Yes, art schools and art teachers advise on developing your ability to shade with the pencil when you do graphite work, there are many techniques for this and simply put, a drawing in which you have a contour in pencil and the rest is smudged is rejected to art students.
This pratice to smudge is favored by beginners;I did it in my first portraits then I started building skills to create shade and volume by pencil strokes, whether is circulism or hatching.I guess a little smudging here and there can help but texture as Bobby says needs to be handled in a professional way.
I will put an example of two versions of my father's portrait.This was april 2008 my very first month of portraits. The fact that I tried smudging was not a brilliant solution at the time and the result is not that great.
This pratice to smudge is favored by beginners;I did it in my first portraits then I started building skills to create shade and volume by pencil strokes, whether is circulism or hatching.I guess a little smudging here and there can help but texture as Bobby says needs to be handled in a professional way.
I will put an example of two versions of my father's portrait.This was april 2008 my very first month of portraits. The fact that I tried smudging was not a brilliant solution at the time and the result is not that great.
I don't know, is it cheating or not. Maybe it is if you are studing different shading techniques at school for smooth result and the others use just pencil and you smudge. In other cases, I don't think so. I use smudging only with charcoal and pastels, but not for drawing with graphite, because I don,t like artificial look it leaves. Exept then I try to draw realistic artificial materials as a glass, metal and etc. But never then I draw portraits, because it ruins natural look of skin. You can do it all with drawing and using right pencils. Yes, it tooks much more time, but result is much better, I think.
Due of this thread, I made a portrait and yes, it took much time (6,5 hours), but it looks natural. I could never achieve this result with smudging.
Click to view attachment
Due of this thread, I made a portrait and yes, it took much time (6,5 hours), but it looks natural. I could never achieve this result with smudging.
Click to view attachment
Like all techniques, it can be used well, and it can be used badly.
One thing you can readily do by lightly smudging, is to lower the value of an area generally, so that hatches or circulism marks are sitting on a grey background rather than a white one.
It's a similar issue to that of "blending" in paint or digitally - people often advise not to do it at all, as beginners are prone to greatly overdo it - but used in local areas, lightly, and with care, and as a basis to do further work over the top of, it can be useful.
Dave
One thing you can readily do by lightly smudging, is to lower the value of an area generally, so that hatches or circulism marks are sitting on a grey background rather than a white one.
It's a similar issue to that of "blending" in paint or digitally - people often advise not to do it at all, as beginners are prone to greatly overdo it - but used in local areas, lightly, and with care, and as a basis to do further work over the top of, it can be useful.
Dave
it actually has a smudged look to it, it looks to me as though you made the smudge on the forehead,
and i find the idea of smudging 'cheating' right up there on the list as one of the most ridiculous things i have ever heard..
I dont think i have EVER seen a charcoal drawing that did not incorporate smudging.. and even graphite artist use it and even teach it in almost every book i have ever read, and i have never heard of it being referred to as 'cheating' before..
if a smudge gets you where you need to be then smudge away i say, one thing i have learned about drawing, is once you get the basics, you do what works for you, not what some teacher tells you..they are in many cases working from one point of view, and that is their own..
if it works for you and it makes you happy with your drawing that is what matters, not what anyone else thinks..period
so smudge smudge away!!
and i find the idea of smudging 'cheating' right up there on the list as one of the most ridiculous things i have ever heard..
I dont think i have EVER seen a charcoal drawing that did not incorporate smudging.. and even graphite artist use it and even teach it in almost every book i have ever read, and i have never heard of it being referred to as 'cheating' before..
if a smudge gets you where you need to be then smudge away i say, one thing i have learned about drawing, is once you get the basics, you do what works for you, not what some teacher tells you..they are in many cases working from one point of view, and that is their own..
if it works for you and it makes you happy with your drawing that is what matters, not what anyone else thinks..period
so smudge smudge away!!
QUOTE (oliverandjazz @ Jul 22 2009, 11:16 PM)
it actually has a smudged look to it, it looks to me as though you made the smudge on the forehead,
periodNo, it's not though it might look like that. I was so bored at the end of drawing this that I used side of pencil nostrum instead of the tip. So, that's the proof, I don't have to smudge.
QUOTE (oliverandjazz @ Jul 22 2009, 11:16 PM)
so smudge smudge away!!
periodYes, you are so right about it! Whatever anybody says, do it like you feel better. We can only give advices from our own experiences, but we can't say what's best for you. Only thing, don't get caught by teacher.
QUOTE (ElenaM @ Jul 22 2009, 06:11 PM)
Yes, art schools and art teachers advise on developing your ability to shade with the pencil when you do graphite work, there are many techniques for this and simply put, a drawing in which you have a contour in pencil and the rest is smudged is rejected to art students.
This pratice to smudge is favored by beginners;I did it in my first portraits then I started building skills to create shade and volume by pencil strokes, whether is circulism or hatching.I guess a little smudging here and there can help but texture as Bobby says needs to be handled in a professional way.
I will put an example of two versions of my father's portrait.This was april 2008 my very first month of portraits. The fact that I tried smudging was not a brilliant solution at the time and the result is not that great.
This pratice to smudge is favored by beginners;I did it in my first portraits then I started building skills to create shade and volume by pencil strokes, whether is circulism or hatching.I guess a little smudging here and there can help but texture as Bobby says needs to be handled in a professional way.
I will put an example of two versions of my father's portrait.This was april 2008 my very first month of portraits. The fact that I tried smudging was not a brilliant solution at the time and the result is not that great.
Thank you very much, I like the portraits of your dad. very nice. I don't to me I like smudging to, not alot. But a little bit :$ thats just me, and i'm only 15 so I don't know much
QUOTE (sipsik @ Jul 22 2009, 06:46 PM)
I don't know, is it cheating or not. Maybe it is if you are studing different shading techniques at school for smooth result and the others use just pencil and you smudge. In other cases, I don't think so. I use smudging only with charcoal and pastels, but not for drawing with graphite, because I don,t like artificial look it leaves. Exept then I try to draw realistic artificial materials as a glass, metal and etc. But never then I draw portraits, because it ruins natural look of skin. You can do it all with drawing and using right pencils. Yes, it tooks much more time, but result is much better, I think.
Due of this thread, I made a portrait and yes, it took much time (6,5 hours), but it looks natural. I could never achieve this result with smudging.
Click to view attachment
Due of this thread, I made a portrait and yes, it took much time (6,5 hours), but it looks natural. I could never achieve this result with smudging.
Click to view attachment
No, not cheating in that way. I understand what you mean. I love your portrait, its very nice, good job. I see what you mean by not being to achieve this result with smudging, so like bobby said, it depends on texture, and your portrait proves it. Thank you for taking your time to work on this portrait for this thread.
QUOTE (oliverandjazz @ Jul 22 2009, 07:16 PM)
it actually has a smudged look to it, it looks to me as though you made the smudge on the forehead,
and i find the idea of smudging 'cheating' right up there on the list as one of the most ridiculous things i have ever heard..
I dont think i have EVER seen a charcoal drawing that did not incorporate smudging.. and even graphite artist use it and even teach it in almost every book i have ever read, and i have never heard of it being referred to as 'cheating' before..
if a smudge gets you where you need to be then smudge away i say, one thing i have learned about drawing, is once you get the basics, you do what works for you, not what some teacher tells you..they are in many cases working from one point of view, and that is their own..
if it works for you and it makes you happy with your drawing that is what matters, not what anyone else thinks..period
so smudge smudge away!!
and i find the idea of smudging 'cheating' right up there on the list as one of the most ridiculous things i have ever heard..
I dont think i have EVER seen a charcoal drawing that did not incorporate smudging.. and even graphite artist use it and even teach it in almost every book i have ever read, and i have never heard of it being referred to as 'cheating' before..
if a smudge gets you where you need to be then smudge away i say, one thing i have learned about drawing, is once you get the basics, you do what works for you, not what some teacher tells you..they are in many cases working from one point of view, and that is their own..
if it works for you and it makes you happy with your drawing that is what matters, not what anyone else thinks..period
so smudge smudge away!!
Lol, thank you very much, I will smudge away. But I will do it lightly, and be aware of the texture. Thank you.
QUOTE (sipsik @ Jul 22 2009, 07:58 PM)
period
No, it's not though it might look like that. I was so bored at the end of drawing this that I used side of pencil nostrum instead of the tip. So, that's the proof, I don't have to smudge.
period
Yes, you are so right about it! Whatever anybody says, do it like you feel better. We can only give advices from our own experiences, but we can't say what's best for you. Only thing, don't get caught by teacher.
No, it's not though it might look like that. I was so bored at the end of drawing this that I used side of pencil nostrum instead of the tip. So, that's the proof, I don't have to smudge.
period
Yes, you are so right about it! Whatever anybody says, do it like you feel better. We can only give advices from our own experiences, but we can't say what's best for you. Only thing, don't get caught by teacher.
lol very true
and very funny
I would like to see Brenda's opinion on this topic.
many many years ago, i tried to take a tole painting class. no big deal like 2 or 3 weeks.I was all excited and still have the lil qtip dabbed guy i created with so much pride..
first week or so teacher and i was getting along quite well, then when the big end project came, we got into a big argument, i threw my work in the trash and walked out..it was over the color purple, believe it or not..lol
she had her mind set on what colors the class was going to work with, and i not only did not want to purchase that color, but i had my own colors in mind..she refused to let me use my own colors, i refused to buy or use her purple..and that was the last time I tried to take an 'art' class
lol
first week or so teacher and i was getting along quite well, then when the big end project came, we got into a big argument, i threw my work in the trash and walked out..it was over the color purple, believe it or not..lol
she had her mind set on what colors the class was going to work with, and i not only did not want to purchase that color, but i had my own colors in mind..she refused to let me use my own colors, i refused to buy or use her purple..and that was the last time I tried to take an 'art' class
lol
i would also like to add that ms cyndi wider has a great shading lesson here dealing with textures too..
QUOTE (oliverandjazz @ Jul 22 2009, 09:57 PM)
many many years ago, i tried to take a tole painting class. no big deal like 2 or 3 weeks.I was all excited and still have the lil qtip dabbed guy i created with so much pride..
first week or so teacher and i was getting along quite well, then when the big end project came, we got into a big argument, i threw my work in the trash and walked out..it was over the color purple, believe it or not..lol
she had her mind set on what colors the class was going to work with, and i not only did not want to purchase that color, but i had my own colors in mind..she refused to let me use my own colors, i refused to buy or use her purple..and that was the last time I tried to take an 'art' class
lol
first week or so teacher and i was getting along quite well, then when the big end project came, we got into a big argument, i threw my work in the trash and walked out..it was over the color purple, believe it or not..lol
she had her mind set on what colors the class was going to work with, and i not only did not want to purchase that color, but i had my own colors in mind..she refused to let me use my own colors, i refused to buy or use her purple..and that was the last time I tried to take an 'art' class
lol
lol wow, sometimes art teacher are so set on there ways.
So you were only aloud to use the values of purples. Monocromatic?
QUOTE (MiniArtist4 @ Jul 18 2009, 08:35 PM)
My grade 9 teacher said that when you smudge its a cheat to shading. I thought it made the object look smooth and the gradient between the values blend so it looks like one piece.
Is this true?
Is this true?
**** no! its art there are No rules; whatever works works. in my opinion the best artwork is done when stupid rules made up by untalented art teachers is broken. i do all me artwork in marker and i always smudge my art with my fingers to help create shading. i am very satisfied with the result.
Another spin on Blending..Blending
I have used a small soft chamois to get a smoother skin tone .. as it would be on a young child..
Just my toss in..
I have used a small soft chamois to get a smoother skin tone .. as it would be on a young child..
Just my toss in..
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