Summary: Would you want a portrait of yourself to be acurate showing all flaws or enhanced removing what current norms would consider unflattering such as scars, discolorations, wrinkles and fat folds?
Full Version: To Flatter or Not?
Ok, this is a question mostly aimed at the women here not because I am a sexist pig but because all of these portraits I am doing are of women. Men can respond too of course but I think men and women look at this subject differently because of differing cultural norms. The subjects I am working on are for the most part just normal people. And in the US that means that most of them are way over weight. It is such a temptation, and I have done it a little already, to trim as it were, a few pound here and tuck a few wrinkles there. So how would you react, assuming that you were self conscious about your weight, most are, if you saw your portrait and you were enhanced a bit? Over and above the fact that I have all the artistic license to draw whatever I want to, I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. I hope I am not between a proverbial rock and a hard place in which if I am true to life it would hurt feelings in that someone saw the weight on the rock side and if I am not true to life, and I trim them it would hurt feelings in that I obviously saw the weight since I removed it on the hard place. Sorry for the long post.
Summary: Would you want a portrait of yourself to be acurate showing all flaws or enhanced removing what current norms would consider unflattering such as scars, discolorations, wrinkles and fat folds?
Summary: Would you want a portrait of yourself to be acurate showing all flaws or enhanced removing what current norms would consider unflattering such as scars, discolorations, wrinkles and fat folds?
Im a guy, but i'd like 2 put my 50c in here.
The job of an artist is to make distinguishing features an attraction. All portraits are caricatures to some extent, so details can be missed and others enhanced. Its the artists job to decide what features represent the person best, and makes that person recognisable. ie. if ur subject is a chubby, friendly person, then draw a chubby friendly person. If they are a pole, draw a pole. If they have a characteristic scar on thier cheek, put it in, and make it a feature.
Hope that makes sense.
The job of an artist is to make distinguishing features an attraction. All portraits are caricatures to some extent, so details can be missed and others enhanced. Its the artists job to decide what features represent the person best, and makes that person recognisable. ie. if ur subject is a chubby, friendly person, then draw a chubby friendly person. If they are a pole, draw a pole. If they have a characteristic scar on thier cheek, put it in, and make it a feature.
Hope that makes sense.
Hey Calvin,
Here is my 49c (inflation took a cent, sorry). Hey, after this is all over, you may be rich, or not after taxes.
I feel that, yes it is in the artists realm to realize the subject they way he/her sees it, but it also has to be the client you have to please. So whereas there may be things about the subject that make them recognizable, there may be things the the client does NOT want included, like fat bags under the eyes, that nasty looking mole on the chin (shivers at thought of Nanny McPhee), or the long scar along the cheekbone from a bar fight over a dancing monkey (but I degress, now where was I??)
Oh yeah, the fine line...There is the fine line betwix what you as the artist sees, and what the client sees in everyday life. It is a quandry, and one that I would talk over seriously with the client, and abide by their wishes, or perhaps make a number of quick sketches to show them what you mean. If they allow freedom of expression in their portrait, then kudos, but if they dont...hey who knows, maybe they married that dancing monkey, and are proud of the scar...not speaking from personal experience however.
Anyhow, gotta go feed my chimp.
Cheers.
Paul
Here is my 49c (inflation took a cent, sorry). Hey, after this is all over, you may be rich, or not after taxes.
I feel that, yes it is in the artists realm to realize the subject they way he/her sees it, but it also has to be the client you have to please. So whereas there may be things about the subject that make them recognizable, there may be things the the client does NOT want included, like fat bags under the eyes, that nasty looking mole on the chin (shivers at thought of Nanny McPhee), or the long scar along the cheekbone from a bar fight over a dancing monkey (but I degress, now where was I??)
Oh yeah, the fine line...There is the fine line betwix what you as the artist sees, and what the client sees in everyday life. It is a quandry, and one that I would talk over seriously with the client, and abide by their wishes, or perhaps make a number of quick sketches to show them what you mean. If they allow freedom of expression in their portrait, then kudos, but if they dont...hey who knows, maybe they married that dancing monkey, and are proud of the scar...not speaking from personal experience however.
Anyhow, gotta go feed my chimp.
Cheers.
Paul
Calvin, this is one of the reasons that I have as a block against taking up portrait drawing. You have a very good question posed to this audience. I must say, you are doing some outstanding work with your portraits, and this sort of question is a valid one in that respect. My best anology on the situation would be to make the person as flattering as possible without going into fantasy.
I feel for ya Bro'!
Eric
May the Lead Spread ... just not too wide!
I feel for ya Bro'!
Eric
May the Lead Spread ... just not too wide!
How about a woman's point of view here? Use your artistic license - if ever there were an occasion for it, it's when doing portraits! However, DON'T be obvious about it and I definitely wouldn't discuss it with the person whose portrait you're painting! Just be subtle about it and they'll think you're the best portrait artist they've ever seen!
It's not that you don't paint wrinkles or a little extra weight, it's that you don't emphasis those things. Paint a very wrinkled woman in a candlelight setting or from a distance such as putzing in the rose garden. Paint an overweight woman holding one of those fuzzy little heel biters or a big Persian cat that could hide a "multitude of sins"! lol
Men, it's not whether to flatter or not flatter - it's using your head so that you'll be asked to do other portraits in the future! Not only will you be asked to do them, they'll pay you big money because you do them so well!
J
It's not that you don't paint wrinkles or a little extra weight, it's that you don't emphasis those things. Paint a very wrinkled woman in a candlelight setting or from a distance such as putzing in the rose garden. Paint an overweight woman holding one of those fuzzy little heel biters or a big Persian cat that could hide a "multitude of sins"! lol
Men, it's not whether to flatter or not flatter - it's using your head so that you'll be asked to do other portraits in the future! Not only will you be asked to do them, they'll pay you big money because you do them so well!
J
Shoot! I kept trying to edit my post & get it all finished then can't figure out how to get it back in the thread!
This will probable end up as an edit!
OK - what I tried to say half a dozen times is that I think you're doing a great job with the portraits. I also noticed that some women were subsituting their children or grandchildren so does that mean they know about the gifts? What's been the reaction?
Also, I got to thinking that I'm not sure whether 3lansir is male or female! Since the icon is small & only half the face shows & it's such a pretty face, well, forgive me, but I just wasn't sure! I thought male because of the "sir" at the end of their nick but I also know how people are with their nicknames.
Oh, shoot - here I go rambling again!
In a nutshell - Accentuate the postive and de-emphasize the negative! That's the artist's perogative. And in the future, only paint babies and children! lol
This will probable end up as an edit!
OK - what I tried to say half a dozen times is that I think you're doing a great job with the portraits. I also noticed that some women were subsituting their children or grandchildren so does that mean they know about the gifts? What's been the reaction?
Also, I got to thinking that I'm not sure whether 3lansir is male or female! Since the icon is small & only half the face shows & it's such a pretty face, well, forgive me, but I just wasn't sure! I thought male because of the "sir" at the end of their nick but I also know how people are with their nicknames.
Oh, shoot - here I go rambling again!
In a nutshell - Accentuate the postive and de-emphasize the negative! That's the artist's perogative. And in the future, only paint babies and children! lol
The role of the artist when commissioned is to create an accurate likeness of the individual. Of course everyone sees a somewhat different version of themselves in a mirror and each photograph is somewhat different too.
As for weight, you cannot really hide that but you can compose the portrait so that the emphasis is on the face. You can add distinguishing features, but not draw attention to them.
Those commissioning a portrait have a certain vanity anyway just in the act of commissioning and if their body image is such that they don't want it captured, they will ensure that a head and shoulders only is requested.
In the end the client can ask for changes and its down to the artist to either make the changes or stick to your guns and not do so. I do realistic portraits for the most part and draw it as I see it. To date, no one has complained and to date no one has asked for changes.
As for weight, you cannot really hide that but you can compose the portrait so that the emphasis is on the face. You can add distinguishing features, but not draw attention to them.
Those commissioning a portrait have a certain vanity anyway just in the act of commissioning and if their body image is such that they don't want it captured, they will ensure that a head and shoulders only is requested.
In the end the client can ask for changes and its down to the artist to either make the changes or stick to your guns and not do so. I do realistic portraits for the most part and draw it as I see it. To date, no one has complained and to date no one has asked for changes.
Guess I might as well add my oppinion to this.I have a 300 pound ugly sister with a 2 in' long wart on the tip of her nose.She will not let her picture be took so she surely will not let me draw her,just kidding!
But anyway,I had a brother come to see me from out of state.I did a quick sketch of him then took my time to finish it after he left.He put an eye out when he was a young man and have a glass eye.Over the years that part of his face had dropped a little even though I have never heard anyone comment of this.I drew it as I saw him.Now when anyone see the drawing that know the man comment on that part first as"Wow,I really never notice that but it look just like him.Follow you heart but I draw it as I see it.
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But anyway,I had a brother come to see me from out of state.I did a quick sketch of him then took my time to finish it after he left.He put an eye out when he was a young man and have a glass eye.Over the years that part of his face had dropped a little even though I have never heard anyone comment of this.I drew it as I saw him.Now when anyone see the drawing that know the man comment on that part first as"Wow,I really never notice that but it look just like him.Follow you heart but I draw it as I see it.
[attachmentid=122]
Thank you all for your comments. This whole discussion has been very enlightening. So many points of view, I had no idea. Anyway thanks again. I wished I could consult with the clients but it is a suprise for all of them. They were not told why the office needed the pictures and the ones that refuse to be photographed where "worked" on the sly to get another photo of something precious to them. Had to be a lot of lying going on there....LOL. Anyway I have decided that I will draw to the best of my ability (not that great) and make them so I like to look at them come what may. I guess if asked, I will just say, "That was what I saw so that was what I draw. (Wow really bad use of tense, but very poetic 
) Does "That was what I sue so that is what I drew" any better?
) Does "That was what I sue so that is what I drew" any better?
The very first portrait i ever did was of my brother and his wife, he was kinda overweight and his wife had a scar on her cheek, Anyhow the paintings were a present and so were very much a secret, i had a very similar dilemma, do i paint as i see them or not?
In the end i decided to paint as i saw, but, i made little emphasis on the negatives, keeping the eyes, nose and mouth in focus and softening the rest.
Keep the detail in the relevant areas, this will draw the eye into those parts of your pictures. If you draw obviously different, people will want to know why, "Oh I didn't think you wanted that mole emphasised!".
Put them in, but not in detail, i think this will solve your problem, it did mine. My brother loves the two portraits i did for him.
RJS
In the end i decided to paint as i saw, but, i made little emphasis on the negatives, keeping the eyes, nose and mouth in focus and softening the rest.
Keep the detail in the relevant areas, this will draw the eye into those parts of your pictures. If you draw obviously different, people will want to know why, "Oh I didn't think you wanted that mole emphasised!".
Put them in, but not in detail, i think this will solve your problem, it did mine. My brother loves the two portraits i did for him.
RJS
J-Lynn, how could you get that confused about me. I no i have a pretty face, that was from several years ago. Puberty has happened since then!
You were right about the sir bit in my nickname, it is there for a reason! (check my profile)
You were right about the sir bit in my nickname, it is there for a reason! (check my profile)
Please forgive me 3lansir! Your icon shows you as an extrordinarily handsome person and your profile didn't specifically say you were a male officer. Here in the US, women can be officers too so I didn't know what to think. However, I was guessing you were male from the tone of your post!
RJS, you said it so much better than I did!
J
RJS, you said it so much better than I did!
J
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