Ok, I was being a little sarcastic with my topic title. I've had so many people tell me they wish I would teach them how I draw portraits. Sometimes I get the feeling they mean in a short time with out years of practice. Below I am reposting a drawing I did of William Shakespeare over forty years ago. I am not sure what grade I was in. I know I was drawing portraits very early. This one could have been for my eight grade English teacher or she could have been teaching in the ninth or tenth grade. She taught at different grade levels over the years. But i did this one with out any art teaching or training what so ever. And with out grids or measuring. But that was at least forty years ago. Anyone should get better in forty years, right?

So no, I can't teach you to draw like me in a few days, weeks, or even a few years. The magic formula is first the basic talent, then you will probably need a lot of encouragement, and many years of practice and frustrations. But if you want to learn just keep practicing and learn to love drawing people.

Darn it -- had my printer all warmed up and everything. I was all ready for that formula

It's natural for people to assume there's a secret for everything. There's an entire industry based on selling insanely overpriced metal sticks and other unnecessary golf-related doodads based on this same flaw in human nature: "If I just had a magic club, I could be another Tiger Woods!"

I know, and I have been tempted to be a part of those hoaxes. But I guess I'll stay with poor and honest. Lol.

I took a Drawing 101 at the local college looking for the magic technique.. well I was really very disapointed.
However, a year later, I finaly realized I did learn some things inspite of myself! Still want the secret mojo that will make it fast and easy!..

I can agree, certainly, that you can't show someone how to draw something one day and expect them to be able to draw it perfectly right away. It does take practice and even age makes a big difference for most people. The younger the age, the less likely they are to perceive visually that same way an older person does.

But, there are specific things to learn when developing the skills to draw a human head; proportions, particularly, and steps you can take to learn to draw objects at different angles, etc. You are talking about a lot of teaching, though, and it is difficult to do online without handouts and things. Step by step pictures of progress don't usually help someone who has no background in art.

Some people are more astute at a younger age - as you must have been - and find it easy to learn art. You must be artistically a right brain learner. It does make a difference although anyone can learn to see from the viewpoint of an artist if they want to take the time and practice.

I try to be generous with my methods and advice. But being self taught I can only pass on methods and techniques I've learned from books and other forums like this one.

On a lighter note, I have a saying, but I'm only joking with I say it. "I can teach you how to draw like me in one brief statement. I use a pencil and paper." lol.

BRB

I do actually think that there is a magic formula, but it's a long, complicated one, like an infinite Taylor expansion. Each term -- each little thing you learn -- adds something to the whole. The neat thing about this simile is that you never stop learning, just as in a Taylor series there are an infinite number of terms. It keeps going on forever.

</science nerd>

You are absolutely right, the more you know, the easier it is to learn the next step.

If you are drawing a portrait and you understand proportions, then you can look at your work and determine where you are having problems. If you understand how objects turn in space and how they look in perspective, you are more likely to draw the turn of the head correctly. If you understand value and how to use it in a drawing thinking in terms of light and shadows, you are more likely to create a three dimensional look using shading techniques that follow through with values. I could go on and on with other areas, but I won't! Anyway, obviously, the more you know the easier, and it is so much fun learning more!

You did see, Ernest Friedman-Hill, that I agree with your joy of oil pastels! I have used them before, but very little, and once I got them out the other day and actually drew something, I loved them! As you said - still learning!

wow..i know i am out of my league here posting with teachers and pros but i just had to put my lil two cents in..

I never thought I could draw..ever..always painted with acrylics preprinted patterns..i admired ppl for years and because i just KNEW i could never draw I NEVER DID...didnt even try...i really was one of those ppl that believed you had to be born 'gifted'..while some of us may have had more encouragement than others and some of us had the good fortune of being able to go to school to learn it and what not i KNOW it has to come from within and with work it can be done..

it wasnt easy for me cause i have the dyslexia and will draw a mirror image of what i am seeing and it takes me a while to figure out what is wrong..i will draw something totally backwards and be looking at it going 'NOW WHAT THE'...lol drawing is very good for ppl with dyslexia, it really strengthens that part of the brain, in my experience anyway..

the things i put up (which is certainly beginner) took me 5 yrs to be able to do..i actually went and signed in at york county community art college...came home with like 400 bucks worth of books and a hefty tuition and was told to immediately bring them back and get a refund..talk about burst my bubble...well i did it amongst lots of tears but i didnt put the money back in the bank..i took that 400 i bought school books with and i bought books from many different artist and set to work right away, reading, studying, and trying

and even though i am no pro..i am very proud of my progress...i look at my stuff and say wow...you did that..you did that all by yourself...no book...no grid...you are doing it kay..you are getting the hang of it..so i am hoping that by the time i reach my 60s' (god willing) i will be as wonderful at drawing as you guys..cause i have come so far and the more i draw the more there is to learn and the more mediums to explore..

so anyhoot...just babbling now..i am just tickled to have found drawspace

hugs to all
Kay

Bobby, I think, from my perspective that involve the conversations I have had with you, that I was meaning something like those grid methods published but along the lines of that other tutorial/lesson you did but more ...specific. or rather more steps i should say. what takes you hours takes me days It is wonderful work B.


Marc

Marc, what you said only reminded me of the literally hundreds of people both on Drawspace and locally who have said things similiar. Twice I have start classes and many of the people who say these things so earnestly will promise to join the classes but when I start the classes about one person in ten show up.

Bob

The topic made me smile as I come across the same things in the drawing classes that I teach. People expect to come out of a single class with the knowledge and that 'magic formula' to enable them to draw effortlessly.

Part of this is today's instant gratification factor. Many people don't want to wait for something, they want it 'now' and they want it without any pain or thought too. People want a detailed, realistic portrait for instance, but rush through something in 30 minutes and wonder why it doesn't look as they expect. Then I tell them I take 30 hours to create my realism.

I taught a life class a few weeks ago and one of the artists there was struggling to find proportion and measurements. I helped them get to grips with it and asked what they drew during the week between classes. 'Nothing' they replied. 'I don't draw between classes.' Yet they frustrate themselves in a class by not being able to understand the basic techniques by practicing on something, anything to draw.

I am teaching a long workshop in late May and people are asking the same questions again. Looking for that magic formula. I think I will disappoint them.

Buds,
Jeanette and Bob,

are you now contrary and wanting to discourage?! Or are you implying that you never asked for something or another. Because no matter the verbal semantics used here as descriptors, the implication is go do it yourself and do not ask for assistance. what an odd combination, education versus elimination, or is it a forced resignation? Surely this will give me pause when something is asked of me again. Truly, stand back and re-read your answers and tell me if it is just not a smidgen passive- aggressive. ahh yes "... but first and foremost, to thine own self be true..."

Well I suppose I will remain the consummate lurker.


M...................

Quite the opposite Marc. Asking and learning is all part of the process and I don't believe denying either was my intent. However, I have found that there can be, in some individuals, the asking, but still not comprehension or willingness to put in the practical work or the time that is required to truly understand or accomplish the skill they want. I have no problem in going over the same ground time and time again until a student understands the technique. But I don't understand a student not being willing to complete the other half of the equation, which is putting those techniques into practice to hone them by daily drawing.

Drawing, like any other manual skill, is learned and improved on from repetition, not from knowledge alone. You didn't learn to drive your car or play a musical instrument simply by reading about it or asking how it operated. You had to actually get in there and do it. Over and over and over again. There also has to be a deep seated desire to succeed in this area. This desire is present in every skill level that people are drawn towards whether art, cooking, flying a plane or whatever other skill that requires manual dexterity and hand/eye coordination.

It is human nature to find the quickest path around obstacles. It is not always the best path.

I encourage individuals to ask questions and learn from both the answers and the mistakes that happen along the way. There is a process in teaching and learning the traditional academic techniques of drawing and painting and that involves understanding and questioning. However, there is a practical side to the skill of drawing which can only be achieved through daily practice, because that is the pivotal piece of the acquired skill once you have mastered the basic understanding of the techniques.

And Marc...guess what? You're not a lurker anymore

Ok

Bob actually replied in a thread to a conversation that we had on messenger. whereIn, I simply stated that portraitor was not my real forte' we become most used to what we do often, I can accomplish what everyone else can but it takes me longer because It is not what I do most...Just as you have a skill in color pencil, I likewise can do things in any black and white pencil charcoal even conte' crayon seascape landscape buildings crap But I can render a landscape in 30 minutes and do it well. so I asked if he could elaborate on his tut. so that I could have a better understanding of this approach. perhaps I am used to people asking more then once for assistance about the samething...I have a lot of children.

As an aside, If I did not know better, I would think that you may be deliberately engaging me from some perverse enjoyment of didactic discourse.....



mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

A quote from writer Harlan Ellison:

"Art is supposed to be hard. Art is supposed to be demanding. That's how I feel about it."

Bob,

I had to laugh when I read your bit about it just taking a pencil & paper . We used to laugh with folk when they asked about the secret to riding horses - typical answer from me & my sister "Just keep the horse between your legs!" I used to ride in Polocrosse and just pleasure riding but started when we were young and no formal training.

Now art was something that I wanted a magic pill for - but sadly it took practice practice practice - and my secret is I am still practicing and experimenting and still haven't been able to reproduce what I see in my mind's eye. I'll just keep going............................the good thing is that when you look back you see just how far you've come and get a small warm feeling inside.

Sue

Rsine has a good point. You should always be demanding more from yourself if you intend to get any better. Just don?t demand too much or you can become disheartened

Just keeping my old brain cells moving Marc

There's nothing better than healthy discussion about the education process, as long as there are willing partners

Well I dont think your brain cells are having much of a problem!


Yours in art


Marc

I am curious...how did a discussion that took place off this board become convoluted and become a conversation about whether a person is lazy, or passionate or motivated or lacking talent or possessing talent, or any combination of the above. which is exactly what is happening here. I have in the past made my living by the analysis and understanding of the written and verbal language. It is ...well what I do. and no matter how well a person words a thing, the end result in its most thetical statement is the implication that someone is or is not trying hard enough. If we all here have evolved in art to such a sagely awareness, then even all the more reason to not decline to give one assistance. BRB took our private conversation into this forum, and yes there may have been others as well that have contacted him but I can only speak for myself and no other. I am telling you all this Lance, that this conversation is nothing if not SMUG and full of hidden disdain and I am really starting to resent the ebb and flow of it.



Marc





What is your point young sir! It is totally lost on me!


But to sum all of this up into at least cursory a statement...I would like to think that as an educator in Law that there are at least a few actual good attorneys or legal minds out there that have evolved so because i gave them the help they needed , when they asked and regardless of how they asked

One more thing, if all of you here think that anyone who requests a thing is looking for nothing more then some "magic button" then perhaps those that need that magic button should seek council elsewhere, as I am of the immediate opinion that the answer does not lie within " D R A W S P A C E."


Marc

Marc,

I apologize also in this forum for making any statement that could possibly be interpreted as discouragement to anyone. And if there is anyone who doubts my willingness to help others and encourage others, expecting nothing in return, should either ask the members who have been here for the past year or take the time to go through the archives and look for step-by-step lessons that took me hours to create.

BRB.

I know that is unnecessary Bob. It is the inherent message that exists within many of the posts in any part of this forum by anyone at all. It is not necessary for you to have apologized, You did nothing wrong. I can see that you are a very good person, and I appreciate it. I really do! I dislike , intensely posts that appear to be one thing on the surface and they are actually veiled and in disguise. and I decided to respond to it here in this thread.


be well Bob


Marc

Wow, this is drawspace, can we get back to drawing now..

Airscapes, nothing but you perusing the forum is stopping you from drawing. and If I were you I would not stop. Thats quality airbrush work. It is just my rant, we are all allowed to have them here and there. I cant be the first one you have read.

No we cant! we must bitc* as must as possible. I think I am having midlife crisis. Just a rant airscapes. by the way , I went to your site and noticed that you live outside of where I moved from. and then I noticed that you rendered my most favorite person in my most favorite movie. good job...I think it is great. So, I am finished here...all of you too? I drank a pot of coffee and took motrin...all better, lets move on .....

It's all good! Just have seen rants turn into uglyness on other forums..
Btw which actor/actress we talking??

beckinsale check your pm