The 2nd drawing challenge seems to have slowed in people submitting drawings, so I'm trying to find out why. Please let me know if any of the following areas would assist you in participating.

1. Change to a weekly challenge
Is two weeks too long for people? Do you get 'image fatigue' ?

2. Are the reference images too challenging or not interesting enough?
I know reference material is very subjective so its difficult to choose something that appeals to everyone.

3. Do you feel intimidated by any aspect of the challenge?
The purpose of the challenges is to provide an opportunity to put the information that you have gleaned from Brenda's lessons into practical use to create new images on your own.

4. Why DO you participate in a drawing challenge? Why DON'T you participate in a drawing challenge?
The drawing challenges are here as a way to improve your skills and learn new techniques in a safe, non threatening environment. Of course no one has to participate, but practice is the best way to learn.

Provide your comments here or to me privately if you wish and if there is a common thread in your responses, the challenges will be changed to reflect that.

Thanks.

I for one am feeling the stress of approaching end of year deadlines, so I can only do one drawing a fortnight.

Dunno bout every1 else.

I for one am feeling the stress of approaching end of year deadlines, so I can only do one drawing a fortnight.

Dunno bout every1 else.

I have begun participating in drawing challenges because it frees me from having to decide what to draw and because I can participate in the community of others drawing the same thing. I know it will be of interest to somebody.

The challenge does not intimidate me, but I tend to be willing to jump in even when I know mine won't look as good as someone else's. Besides, we grow by stretching and I'm after growth.

The reference materials picked so far have been great. They have varied in terms of compexity and interest. I like having a choice each time, it gives me fewer reasons to avoid doing the drawing.

Every two weeks is fantastic. There are other weekly challenges that you can find online. Such as at www.wetcanvas.com in Drawing and Sketching or the theme based Illustration Friday. It's nice to have one that gives a little more room to breathe.

I'm intending to do mine this weekend or early next week, Eric's amusing "confusion" that a woman could want to draw the farm equipment aside....

Beth

Yes, I know 3lansir that some people do have lots of other things happening that make it more difficult to find time to fit in drawing on a weekly scale. How's the portfolio going?

Thanks for your comments Beth. I'm glad you enjoy participating. Yes having a reference chosen for you does make that decision making moment easier, doesn't it? I take part in other drawing challenges in other forums which keep my skills fresh and allow me access to new images and push me outside my comfort level sometimes too.

You just show Eric how the ladies can draw farm equipment!

I have been absolutely swamped this past week. I occasionally work for a temp agency & there has been an avalanche of work in my current assignment. To make matters worse, the job is a good ways from home & travel back & forth eats up a ton of time. Add all the overtime, travel time & just the normal stuff at home to do & drawing has had to take a back seat right now.

Not an excuse but an explanation! I hope things even out in the coming week & I can tackle one of the challenge photos.

J

oh yes J-Lynn, I know that feeling well! I'm here today working on three portraits, cleaning, cooking, and showing my horse to potential buyers. There just aren't enough hours in the day.

I'm here! I'm HERE! Please don't shut down the Challenge.

I am like 3lansir in getting pulled away on the job at odd times and for odd emergencies. Right now I'm sitting in Italy and didn't pull a copy of the refs from the Internet before leaving. The Internet was shut down on arrival here (part of the reason for being sent) and my hotel they booked me in doesn't have connection either. So, I'm like a fish flopping on the deck right now (Ok, don't draw that!!). But, I get one benefit, tonight and tomorrow, its off to Venice and more discovery. I love that city! Its hard to believe that Copernicus and DaVinci walked those same streets many years ago. America is so... young!

Two weeks of running the challenge is fine, 'cause I like the breathing room as well. And three refs is good too. If I get a good week of slow time, I can do three, and when its fast, I can choose one from the group, but at least have a choice.

All the refs so far have not been too difficult. Seeing how other artists tackle the project helps me along tremendously in understanding how to go about doing the work.

Eric

1. Change to a weekly challenge

I think the weekly challenge is fine .. but some do need the two weeks .. maybe give more choices as to how many we can draw .. i know I have done two .. and well the third one .. its just me I am sure but well I have no interest in drawing the farm thingy .. but not that it would not be challenging .. cause its not a easy drawing .

2. Are the reference images too challenging or not interesting enough?
I know myself I wouldnt want it too easy but maybe for some beginners put a easy to do and then move down to hardest ...that would get everyone involved even those that are not yet ready to tackle the bigs ones .

3. Do you feel intimidated by any aspect of the challenge?
I myself do not feel intimidated I am willing to put my stuff out their and let Eric have a go at it ..lol or anyone eles I grow from that .. but to get others who may not be advanced in drawing involved again by putting easy drawings out there also to choose from would be nice.

4. Why DO you participate in a drawing challenge? Why DON'T you participate in a drawing challenge?
I did not do the farm thing because of lack of interest ..

I hope this helps .

See? I told you ... Ooops! deeper voice .... it was a MAN thing!!!

No way is the drawing challenge being shut down Eric, don't worry. I'm just trying to understand why people participate or not and how it can be improved in the future so that everyone gets something out of it.

I'm open to all suggestions and I know there are lots of people there who lurk but don't post, but still absorb information and follow threads and who are probably drawing these references too but just haven't posted yet.

Lucky you, in Venice, such a lovely old city. Hmmm, Eric flopping on deck dressed as a fish...interesting drawing challenge... Makes a change from Speedos too.

Thanks for your comments Kim, they were well thought out and are very useful.

not sure who has looked in the insperation gallery yet but Venus posted a beautiful picture of a window with flowers .. a very challenging pic to do ....maybe it can be picked for the next challenge ...its very nice ..check it out .

I saw that photo & was salivating to try it. Venus, did you take that one? It's gorgeous!

I'm always a bit leery of using photos from the Inspiration Gallery because I'm not sure if the poster is the photographer & therefore, the copyright holder. With copyright such an issue right now, maybe the posters to that gallery could state that they have taken the photo or something. Otherwise, I tend to shy away from using the gallery. It could get Brenda in some trouble if we all used a copyright photo.

J

PS - any that I have posted are my own photos & I hereby give permission to use them as references!

Yes, you make a good point about copyright and perhaps a note about it shoudl be posted to let people know about copyright and the issues that go with it.

Right now, I'd say PM the individual who posted the image first to find out whether or not it is theirs or from somewhere else. Posting copyrighted material under another name causes MAJOR problems. I recall another forum having nto remove over 1000 images from their reference when it was discovered that someone had been posting them as their own when they were not. It caused incredible headaches for the admin.

Any that I put in there, you are free to do your drawings from. I'll be going through my Italy pics this weekend and throw some good ones in there.

Eric

those will be fun to draw ....any pics on the colorful blds. ? by the river .. those are sooo beautiful..never been there ..but was sent alot of pics .

All of the photos I posted are copy right free. I took some of them from Wetcanvas searching for reference photos and I have some of mine up there. So feel free to use as you wish.

As far as the draw challenge goes I think maybe it could be split to maybe beginner, intermediate, and advanced levels based on where people may feel confortable? Just a suggestion. I for one usually won't give up a drawing I start until I am pleased with the results. I think maybe beginners are feeling that others are better than them and don't want to participate because maybe they feel they may not "win" based on their drawings. I for one in my opinion think that when the decision of who wins should be based on who looks like they may need the material the most. Anyways I think the two week deadline is perfect and maybe there could be a few more photos than just 3 added. Some more simple than others, I have loved all of the photos submitted so far and really haven't found any of them too difficult and I have drawn all 6 reference photos from both draw challenges, but hey I have nothing but time on my hands...LOL

OK OK OK, no dirty looks.
The reason I have not submitted during this round is two-fold.
1) I am presently unemployed. Looking for work and trying to provide for my family takes up a vast percentage of my time.
2) My bro-in-laws wife just gave me an entry form for a mag called Horses in Art. They are looking for cover art for 2007. It could be the break I need. Any time I have left (sleeping) is being taken by my new peice. It has a vast amount of grass in it, which makes me go cross eyed, and after 15 minutes, my hand is shaking so bad I could do squirkles without thinking about it.

I love the challanges, please dont stop. I will attempt to do one as soon as I get my head out of my grass. Oh man, that was bad.

Oh yes, I will post a WIP when I get a little further along, hard to see anything yet except...grass.

Cheers all.

First of all I need to clear up a misconception here. The two prizes offered by Brenda were to entice people to get involved. Their distribution is IN NO WAY based on any degree of proficiency in art. It is based SOLELY on participation. You enter a drawing, you have a chance to win one of the books. Simple as that. Its a name out of a hat, no judgement, no knowledge, pure luck of the draw.

Venus, I don't believe there is anything such as beginner, intermediate or advanced when it comes to references. Art is what you make it. The levels that you mention are more the individuals interpretation of how realistic they can make them appear. Yes, some images are more complex than others, but you can choose to do just a line drawing or make it more intricate by shading or colour.

Venus as for the images, you should acknowledge the source and the photographer if you put something on a site, especially if they aren't your own. Yes, they are free copyright, but I don't think I'd like to see my work all over the net without acknowledgement if I put it in one spot.

No chance of the challenges stopping Horsewhisperer, they're just getting started and seeing the interest and participation I think they'll be going for quite awhile yet.

Good luck with the cover art for the horse mag, sounds interesting. Do we get to see a work in progress? I can sympathize on all the grass, its a chore, but will be great once done.

As to the challenges, being a beginner, I was too hesitant to try the first one, feeling humbled and nervous by the great show of talent on this site. By the second challenge, I figured that I may as well jump in there because, how else can I learn.. So now I'm hooked... It wasn't as frightening as I thought. Besides, I looked through the gallery and saw that even those talented artists that humbled me, drew stuff that was less than perfect in the beggining. They just kept trying and, wow! look at them now. Maybe I will get really good also. But I find that it doesn't mater, because it's just really a lot of fun..
And you are all so helpful and friendly and have a way of putting even the most timid beginner as ease, that I now know that "home is where the art is".

Cyn

i think these challenges are great idea. and two weeks seems about right to me. I think the reason i tend to post my drawings is because i like to see what other people are doing with the same images. everyone has a different interpretation so thats really interesting for me and and its somewhere to get new ideas or something to try next time.

i don't know weather people would be interested in maybe spanning out a little, maybe have a forum alongside where people can post stuff based on the reference images, paintings, collage, digital stuff anything a bit abstract. This might even bring in a few newbies... anyone who doesn't tend to do straight forward drawing.

The references so far have been great. a good mix, each with its own challenges.

For me the best bit of the forum is seeing what everyone else comes up with based on the same 3 images. After struggling with a certain part of an image its good to be able to look at how other people have done things.

Hi everyone, Jaenette I think Cyn said it really well. We all learn and it is so much fun, I enjoy it much. And the opportunity to rub elbows with some of the nicest and talented people I have ever come accross. With you for a coach and Eric to entertain us what more could we ask for. I think it's great how every one helps each other since we are all at different levels. Jeanette I have a feeling more and more people will participate as more learn about it. Seems many of us are busy so maybe it would be an idea to extend the deadlines. By the way I have a few Idea's for more challenges if you are interested please let me know, hope I helped. Brian

Okay Brian, I'm rolling on the floor laughing now.. I see Mr. Speedo has some competition in the comic department.


.

OK, so Jeanette gets to be the serious one, and I'm just a Clown! Thanks, Brian! You Comic, you!

Cyn, I almost never make myself laugh but I think I just did...and after reading your speedo comment I was in stitches .... and Jeanette has been throwing in some good one's too.


Eric my friend , never throw punches at a guy who wants to be a cartoonist we know how to get even....anyway you know all in fun..

Everyone here is so entertaining....I love the way this whole group seems to get along ..you come in here and you guys make people feel very welcome with your humor .

You better look out Kim, because you are such a great artist that we might pick on you next. Hmmm Wait a minute.. You're cute, talented, sweet and a perfect victim for the humor.. What more could we ask?

Poor Eric, although he's a funny, humorous guy, and another great artist, maybe I should lay off the "Mr Speedo" for a while.

Just to you know Jeannette all of the photos I use for references I made sure that the permission was given to use them how I choose, so I don't think anyone who posted them would care if they were being used for ART references. Besides its not like I took the whole library and posted it for our group. I added actually two photos. The rest were mine, but if you feel there may be a problem I can gladly remove them. I thought they were pretty and would inspire others. You know I really like you as a person and artist and I really value your advice when you give it to me but sometimes I find the way you address people you can seem mean at times.

Venus, I would like to address the issue of posting other people's photo references. I do understand what you're saying & know the internet is infamous for causing hurt feelings and people taking comments totally differently from the way they were intended. It's because we cant see the body language of the people doing the posting and because time is so short for most of us that we have to say things very succintly which comes across as being curt and hurtful.

Anyway, back to the copyright issue. Not too long ago, the US Congress enacted the Orphan Copyright Act (or something to that effect) where any graphic, photo or piece of art without a known copyright holder was placed into the public domain. When photos, art etc are taken from one site where they're to be used for a specific purpose, and posted to another site without acknowledgement, they can fall prey to this heinous new law.

Think of it this way:

Venus posts her lovely waterlily drawing and tells the members of the site where she posts it that it's ok to use that drawing for email stationery. Well, one member of the site where Venus has posted the drawing decides to offer it to her group where they do signature tags. Then a member of the signature tag group decides to offer the drawing to her group where they offer Paint Shop Pro tubes for free download. Pretty soon, the origninal purpose of the offer is totally lost. People decide to use Venus's waterlily drawing for commercial purposes and Venus has no recourse because it appears that the drawing is copyright free under the Orphan Copyright Law - afterall, there's no acknowlegement of the original copyright holder.

How would you feel, Venus, if someone other than you were making money off your hard work? How would you feel if you discovered that your drawing was all over the internet and no one knew, or even cared, that you had done the drawing or that it wasn't being used for the purpose that you had originally given permission for it to be used.

This scenario is no exaggeration - it happens every day. There are people who deliberately "snag" every graphic or photo they can get their hands on with the rationale that "if they didn't want it stolen, they shouldn't have posted it."

My point is, ONLY your own work should be posted on the internet because you really have no control over where it might eventually end up. After all, how many of the thousands of members on this site do you know and trust to do the right thing and use the photos you post for strictly art references as originally intended by the actual photographer?

It's not that anyone is trying to be hard on you or anyone else - all we're saying is be very careful because copyright is a HUGE issue on the internet and mega-lawsuits are being launched and many, many websites are being shut down because of unauthorized posting of material other than your own.

And, you can call me mean also, but I'm posting this publically because it could very well educate & benefit others.

J

Hey Cyn ...you guys can pick on me all you want .. cause I know its all in fun .. I am a good sport..I love laughing .. its the window to a persons soul I believe .. it makes you live longer and i am all for that
kim

Venus, my intention was and is not to cause hurt feelings and I am aware that meanings can easily be miscontrued in this environment as you can't see expression or hear inflection in words.

When I mentioned copyright it wasn't to hurt your feelings, it was to protect you and to protect Drawspace. Copyright issues are HUGE as J-Lynn has said and everyone really does need to be very very cautious when using or posting materials that are not their own.

My apologies if my comments were taken personally by you. They weren't intended to be so, I simply wanted to warn you (and others) of possible problems by posting images that weren't your own.

Well I hope no one is mad at me because I really love this place. And since I did not really get a response from my letter I took the time to write I kind of feel sad I have tried to participate as much as I possibly could in the draw challenge's and I admire everyone's work.

Well Brian, we have to pick on Kim for a while. I couldn't call her Ms Speedo though. Of course she's probably cuter than Eric, but he has the speedo thing going on.



Which letter? There is so much going on in so many forums that it is sometimes hard to remember where you read what and which ones you answered. Besides who could be mad at you? You have a sense of humor.

Thanks Cyn , you and Kim always put a smile on my face. I was referring to my first letter of this thread I was hopeing to get a response from Jeanette so I hope she is not mad at me, I really wrote it to try to help her with the challenge and thought that was initially the purpose of this thread. Cyn you have to teach me how to use that quote button I am lost.. thanks for being there , Brian.

Awww Brian, come here.... BIG hug....I wasn't ignoring you and I sure am not mad at you. I'm sorry if I overlooked responding directly to you. I appreciate your words and your comments about the challenge.

Yes we can see if people want more time to work on drawings, but then again sometimes a deadline works wonders for procrastination!

And do let me know your ideas for challenges. PM me with your thoughts or start another thread about them and let everyone join in.

Are you sure its not Friday the 13th? I seem to have upset everyone today Sorry people.

I just click on the reply button that is at the bottom right of the letter I want to answer. If you go all the way to the bottom of the page, it doesn't quote.

I hope that helps. This is the first forum I have ever belonged to and I am running blind. It would probably help if I went to the "help" page, but you know how that goes. It's like that old saying, "if all else fails..then ask directions"..

Okay Jeanette did you say Friday the 13th . So here is another spooky bug for you I did. Another of Brenda's lessons. Also thanks, the hug alone put a big smile back on my face Really not you guess I am sensative sometimes. I know you are busy and can't always respond to everyone .I will send you a letter soon with a few idea's I hope you will like...A hint of one ...people love animals how about an animal draw challenge? 3 picks of 3 different animals.

Cyn , seems I am not the only comic hear you always make me laugh .....loven it And yes you are a help but hey I was a teenager in the 70's, sometimes I have to look for my memory.. Have a great eve and day everyone. Nite nite for me.

BrianD very nice drawing of the spider .. I myself hate them but you did that one well ...one of my worst fears is one of those ugly things crawling on me lol .....hmmm teenage in the 70's ...makes you maybe close to my age ...I looked in your gallery and I love your cartoon cat .. the black one .. looks like my cowboy (my cat)

Cyn sorry I dont wear speedos .. those went out in the 70's lol .

Thanks Kim , so nice of you to say that . It's makes me feel great when I hear that from you because I admire your work so much. I saw your cats Kim and are they ever cute, I have tried to do a couple portraits of them but I find them really hard to draw.

Fabulous spidery spider Brian! You've done a great job on it, very realistic. I know they're useful, but shudder...bugs....

great spider brian. i am scared to death of spiders too kim. spiders and snakes, i have had nightmares about them.
about the challenges, i like the way they are because i like the different reference photos to choose from, there is usually a portait in there and i love them, and i like having two weeks because it gives me a chance to do other challenges or do other drawings in this challenge. and it also gives me time to do life stuff and i am not really pressing for time.
i also love this site for all the humor and friendly people that has made me feel so welcomed. and made me laugh even on a bad or sad day. thanks guys!!
Lori