Important Info on Copyright Laws

To help clarify recent discussions about copyright, I have put together the following information pertaining to international copyright laws. All artists need to become familiar with, and respect the fundamental copyright laws, as they pertain to art. Please take a moment to read the following:

All contributors to this forum are asked to strictly adhere to copyright laws. Copyrights to images that are suspected to belong to individuals other than the artist will be removed from the gallery and/or forum by our moderators, administration, or me.

It is illegal to take a photograph, drawing, or even a text article from a website, and place it on another website (or in a forum) without the artist’s permission. For example, I have posted articles written by Robert Genn in this forum; however, before posting them I have written him and asked for permission to do so, which he kindly granted.

Copyright is a form of protection, which grants artists the exclusive right, to sell, reproduce, license, or exhibit their original drawings. Exclusive refers to the artist who originally created the work. He or she is the owner of the copyright to his/her original artwork.

An original artwork is one that an artist creates completely from its conception to the final drawing. No aspect of the work is derived from an already copyrighted image or idea. An artwork is NOT original when the art is copied from an idea or image that is copyrighted. This includes most commercial cartoon characters (such as those belonging to Disney), artworks by other artists, pictures in books or on the Internet, or photographs taken by someone other than the artist (even when you have the permission of the photographer).

You can NOT claim copyright to drawings based on the creations of another artist. This would be considered plagiarism. For example, if you find a drawing or painting that you love on a website, draw a copy of it, and then publicly exhibit it as your own, you have broken the law. You can only draw a copyrighted image if you have the written permission of the person who owns the copyright, usually the same person who conceptualized and physically created the original work.

An exception to this law is applicable to students who use drawings by other artists as references for learning. In this case, the student should credit the artist/owner of the copyright with a notation somewhere on the drawing. A suggestion for wording is: “Study of an original drawing by Robert Bateman” (for example). However, a drawing done from another artist’s work should never be entered in a public gallery or sold. I have seen the reputation of many a wonderful artist ruined when he/she tried to pass off a drawing based on another artist’s work, as their own original artwork.

On the other hand, I own the copyright to all illustrations in my books or on this site. You have my permission to draw from any of these drawings; however, the copyright to drawings created from my lessons, still belongs to me, not you. Hence, you cannot legally claim these drawings as original works of art.

Following are a few commonly asked questions about copyright:

How do I claim copyright to my original art?

If you live in a country that has signed the “Berne Convention” (Berne Union for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Property), claiming copyright is simple. From the moment your art is completed, you automatically own the copyright.

Is there a way to prove that I own copyright?

All you need is proof that you created your work before anyone else. An old method of guaranteeing ownership to a work of art is to simply mail a copy of it to yourself. When you receive it, do not open it or break the seal on the envelope. Simply file it away with the title of the work and the date of its completion. The postmark on the envelope is proof of the date it was mailed, so obviously the work was completed prior to this date.

Can I put a copyright © symbol on my original art?

This is your right as the original creator of an artwork. Unless your art is copied and you are not the true creator, you should use the copyright symbol.

How do I use the copyright © symbol?

A statement of copyright needs three things, the copyright symbol, the date the artwork was created, and the name of the artist. An example is Copyright © December 19, 2003, Brenda Hoddinott.

If you should happen to see an image, photograph, or artwork on this site that you suspect is the legal property of another artist, or simply copied from a website, please hit the REPORT button and let us know.

Thank you!!!!
Brenda

When I join this site,I post in the "Welcome forum" and ask if drawing by me of famous people or Stars were allow.I stated that I drew most of them from pictures I saw on the internet.I don't know the answer word for word,but I were told if it were a drawing by me then it would be OK to post them.If what you say now change this let me know and I'll be glad to delete them.Wouldn't it be a sad place to live for an artist if God put a copyright on everything he created.

Thank You, Brenda. I think I needed to know alot of that information. I found it really informative and even saved it to my computer...lol.

Hi Ted!

This is a very gray area in regards to copyright law.

Drawing from photos of famous people is how I learned to draw, and lots of others as well. You are not trying to claim copyright on your drawings, and you state right up front that your drawings are not done from your own photos. My take on this is to consider drawing famous people (or from other copyrighted images) as a type of learning; hence, exhibiting them on this site is not a problem at all. After all, this is an art education website.

A copyright violation would be to put your reference photos in the forum gallery. But, (another exception) some copyrights expire in 25 to 75 years from creation (depending on the country where you live). At that point, it's open season!

And yes there are even exceptions to the exceptions.

Brenda

hi brenda--first thank you so much for all you and everyone else puts in this site. it has been really great and helpful to me.
i do have a question somewhat similar to tehobu. i have done some drawings from pictures that i found on the internet, one i did for my son but i did post them in my gallery. i am not trying to sell them or anything, it was actually just to learn from but just wondering if they can be posted in my gallery because if not then i can delete them. i can also put that i got the image from the internet. i didnt know i had to specify that. thanks
Lori

I thought I was pretty much up on copyright, but I find I have a question also that I can't find an answer to.

One of my favorite actors was on tv the other day & I took snapshots of him with my digital camera. I wanted to try a portrait of him from my (perfectly awful) digital camera snap shots. Is this legal? I'm not planning to use the copyrighted tape from the actual show - I'm planning to use my own photos.

I'm very pro artist's protection & wouldn't want to infringe on any copyright but I really think it would be ok because I certainly don't plan to sell the painting (if I'm even able to do anything from those photos!) but I would like to post to get feed-back & critique.

I know the copyright issue can go too far - it all started when people just snagged popular graphics from the web & greeting cards, etc. then started making & selling items from those snags. The artists started losing money & clamped down on anyone using their art. It's always a few who make it impossible for the rest of us!

J

Hi Racedolls!

Technically, all drawings done from copyrighted images are in breach of copyright laws. However, students doing drawings from copyrighted images for the purpose of learning the techniques and styles of other artists is usually acceptable.

Yet, to make sure this doesn't become an issue, you should try and get the permission of the artist (photographer). A simple e-mail request to the artist would make you (and me) feel more comfortable. Most artists and photographers would be flattered. I'm a fan of the old adage "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure".

The wording could be something like:

Dear Blah Blah,

I am learning to draw and admire you work very much. May I have your permission to do a sketch based on your art. My sketch will simply be a study of your techniques and will not be used for any commercial ventures whatsoever.

If the reference image is a photo, the wording can be adjusted accordingly.

Yes, copyright can be a pain in the butt for students of art (Ted, I totally agree with you), but NOT having copyright laws at all would totally destroy the careers of artists and aspiring artists who are trying to make a living from their art. Sadly, in most countries, artists tend to be at the bottom of the income chain, anyway.

Brenda

Hi J!

This copyright stuff must really sound cruel to students of art!

Films, movies, and television shows are also copyrighted.

I have watched a film star on TV and then drew a caricature from my mind; but I've never done an actual portrait from either the screen or a photo of the screen. I suspect this would fall under the same legal clause as drawing from a copyrighted image.

Brenda

I figured that was the case! lol I knew about all media being copyrighted but was sort of hoping about photos from the orginal media! Oh, well, they were awful pics anyway!

Thanks, Brenda!

J

Copyright can make life more difficult for artists using reference material at times.

My recommendation would be to try to create your own personal art when creating something for public display or for sale. Draw from life or take your own reference photos. That way you are sure that there will be no problems associated with your art.

Otherwise, artists need to get specific permission from the photographer to make use of the image. And if its a piece that will be for sale, there is a school of thought that says you must make a certain percentage of change in the drawing to ensure that it is not recognized as the original reference image.

On other forums, drawings of public people can be posted but not the original reference image if permission has not been granted from the individual.

Its a very complex and very convoluted subject. There are a number of reference sites online about copyright, a good one is on WetCanvas. Look under Art Business - Legal, and search for copyright. You'll find a host of informational posts about the subject that may answer some more of your questions.

Not putting this in form of a question nor expecting an answer,just thinking out loud.OK,take this person that just made $50,000 by singing for one hour,$100,000 for playing ball for part of the 30 minutes game,or $3,000,000 for being in a hour and half movie(I know,they worked hard for 3 months making it),then someone take a picture of this person in a personal moment and make thousands of dollars from the picture.That is OK!!Some trash newspaper made millions selling this trash to "FANS".That is OK!!Then Google makes billions posting these images all over"Their" Internet.That is OK!!Then AOL or a look alike ISP service charge me out the old **** to get online to see mostly Ads and Pop-ups that God know who is making unknown $$$$$$ from.That is OK!! Now come the bad part!! I see a picture on the net and have no idea where it came from or how it got there and draw a picture of it.Then I post this drawing on Brenda's wedsite that make her this huge sum of ,,,,,,,I mean that cost her money just to stay on-line.That is so wrong!!She does this for whatever reason only the Lord know why.Just trying to make the world a little nicer place to live in I hope.Now this make us a bunch of bad,bad people,breaking some law that some lawyer hoping to make millions enforcing.The person the picture was of makes a few dollars.Now again that is OK!!

Ted,

Everything you say makes a lot of sense! However, it's the little people, like you and me who need copyright protection. I've been true to my artistic calling my whole adult life, and I still struggle to pay my bills. Even with two books published and selling extremely well, I’ve yet to see a single penny in royalties (very, very few authors get rich from writing books). I’ve had an educational website for more than 5 years and to date the venture has cost me a lot more than I’ve made.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not whining. I LOVE what I do and wouldn’t change my profession for all the money in the world. Yet, without copyright laws to protect me and other struggling artists (not those very tiny few who are big name artists or movie stars) some printing company (for example) could legally take my works of art and make tons of money from reproductions (again merely one example of how artists are exploited). This would just take all the wind out of my sails (and other artists’).

In order for me to feel reasonably safe from exploitation, I have to tolerate copyright laws, and respect and help protect the copyrights of my peers. And, you are correct, the laws are not perfect; but, without copyright protection, art itself would die. Can you even imagine a world without art, theatre, music, etc.? An awful lot of very frustrated artists would have no choice but to flip burgers for a living – copyright laws give artists like me a choice – and I choose to be an artist!

I do hope to make money from this site eventually, and as I jokingly tell my friends – If I have to live in a dumpster when I’m old, it’s gonna be a really nice one!

Just my 2c worth....

Brenda

If you want to go whole hog and do it officially (and pay for the process) you can fill out a form and send it to the US copyright office. Check the US copyright web site for the latest PDF form file.

http://www.copyright.gov/forms

Oh Brenda you made me laugh with that last part (living in a dumpster, but a nice one) i will probably live across the alley from you.
I havent made any money from my art, but someday i hope too so i need to know all this. i do agree with you brenda, and ted. i guess we have to take the bad with the good. thats just the way it usually is in life.
i deleted the pictures that i drew from images from the net until i can get permission. i dont want any trouble, i just want to relax and make art. thanks brenda for all the info.
Lori

Hello Brenda and all;

I have just found and joined your great site. Thank you for having it available.

As to this issue I find it very Interesting and informative.

I work with the public and at least once a week I get a request for a copyrighted image, which I turn down. Usually Disney or Warner Bros. I also get into heated discussions with others about this very same issue. I hear all the arguements from some of the other artists and customers from changing it 1/3, changing colors etc. I have also heard of the copy/photo and mailing it to yourself not being consider proper any more.


I wonder if there is a cut and dry (KISS methology) rule list on copywrite? OH and becaue stubborn plays into this, the penalties involved. I would love to print it so I may hand it to people. LOL I get tired of repeating the line... "if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, smells like a duck, ITS a DUCK!"

I have contacted a few artists about using their work for reference and only one ever answered me back, so I just move on.

Thank you all again and look forward to learning more.
Now off to read the copyright registration info posted here.

Hallo from Imperor

This is great topic. I am iterested to know, I did some photoshop tutorial in painting, now I want to post the original pic that artist did and my copy of it just for comparation so that people can see how I learnd to paint. My question is can I do this?

Thanks Brenda
I do have a question. In some art sites there's a reference library of pictures uploaded by artists for free use to members. I am also a member of Wet Canvas where there's over 50,000 of reference photos for members.
If a member use these reference photos and created a painting from it, would this be considered copyright for the artist who created this painting from the free usage of these reference photos?

Hi Chloe, I'm no authority on copyright but I have seen an artists website where she has posted her artwork for sale and there are several of her pictures that were copied from the Wet Canvas Library.

So apparently those pictures are public domain and free of copyright to members. Or maybe she is infringing on the copyright. Or maybe she has permission from the owner of the pictures to paint them.

I got the impression that you could copy the pictures on their library for your own practice or for a reference as to how something looked. Like if you wanted to know what a horse looked like, then you would go to their library and find a picture of a horse.

I dunno.

Hi Painter!
Yes, i've seen this also, and many artists use reference material from the library, or the weekly WDE hosted by members where the host uploads their own photos, unless specified for "WDE USE ONLY" , and members participating can use the photos for their interpretation , and market them.

This is where 'copyright' becomes a little confusing. If these pictures are free of use for reference material for the artist from the Reference Library or the weekly WDE , the artist can't produce 100% of a replica of the photo anyhow. No two artist will produce the same painting of the same photo.
It's impossible!!!
The photo is used as an inspiration for the artist creative pursuit, and therefore the artist will produce their own interpretation of the said free use of reference material producing a unique painting. Wouldn't this unique painting based on the free use of reference photos, in this case Wet Canvas, considered copyright by the artist who painted it thru his own idea and interpretation ?
I am no authority of course on the matter; but it would make sense .

I agree with you ... one hundered percent ....I often wondered what if you paint the mona lisa .. but of course its not the mona lisa your painting is different no matter what .. and you sell it as a mona lisa drawing by you ad use your name ... is that wrong ...really ?

In that particular instance, Kim, you just write on the back of the painting "After Mona Lisa". Then its okay. However, the Mona Lisa is so old that it wouldn't matter.

Its the people who are creating art today who are in danger of copyright infringement.

I just relized your avatar is the mona lisa lol too funny no wonder she popped into my head lol .

Very interesting (and rather confusing) thread. I'm afraid I have infringed the copyright laws by copying a photograph of Elvis from one of his Album covers. This drawing has never been in a gallery of any kind, and was given to my sister as a gift. Could you please let me know where I stand with this - I have to admit that copyright didn't enter my head when I did it, my sister requested it so I just did it for her. Am worried now! Sylvia

Hi

Here's the terms from WetCanvas, You are allowed to create and sell art using those photos for reference - no problem.

Best regards,

Gary Lyben

PS, I'm new here, and haven't drawn anything in over 20 years, I'm starting up again


With respect to Content you submit to the Reference Image Library, you agree that you took the photograph yourself and own all rights to the photograph you are uploading. You understand you will be held liable if you upload images that are copyrighted by someone else. By submitting work to the Reference Image Library, you grant WetCanvas! members the right to create and sell artwork, (including paintings, sculpture, etc.), using your photograph as a reference image in the creation of the artwork.

Welcome Garylyb,
Come join in. Start by introducing yourself in a new thread in the welcome forum.
Paulette

In the writing world there is a genre, or gray area, called fanfiction. Basically it is illegal but it is widely tolerated, mostly because the people writing it don't usually try to make money from it, and the people who own the copyrights don't want to offend their fans. I wonder it there is a gray area named fanart?

Hey,
When i search for pis to draw i usually check te internet, most of the time i search for sites with wallpapers cause i know the resolutiun is better, these pics are used by anyone who wants to use them as a background, so is it illegal or not, just wondering,
I never sell or do anything like that with my pics, they're for me, private, and with wallpapers its almost inpossible to find the person who took 'em. never thought of copyright before actually

And if i show my pics to friends, i always tall them i copied from a photo, so they know its not really my picture,

****, copyright makes life harder lol

I have studied copyright law and I find it very complicated and ambiguous. In this situation we are discussing here I think there are two decisions to be made. The first is the decision that Brenda and the Drawspace team must make: What to accept on their website? The second is the decision a member posting must make: What to risk posting?

I think Brenda has the right to reject or delete what she thinks might cause her a problem. Members must decide if they want to risk the embarrassment of having their work deleted or rejected.

I do not have the copyright owner's permission to sketch the posting of Anna Nicole, Michael Bolton, Harry Potter, Aragorn, and several of the other studio produced photos.

I have not made a penny from any of these sketches. I have used them in my portfolio to display samples of my work and as practice sketches.

However, If Brenda or her team doesn’t want them on the Drawspace.com website, then I would understand and I will remove them all if that is what they want, or they can also.

I made the decision to risk posting them, but because of the ambiguousness of the copyright laws, I will leave the other decision up to Brenda and her team.

Does this apply if a person is not selling the drawing they make, when only using the art or photo for practice? if so must the person still have permission? Or does it work to write the credit on the work with a disclaimer not original idea. or any such thing. I never sell anything but have used things to inspire my drawings. I am asking for others now I no longer draw any art.

Disney will never give the ok they are really tight but can do nothing as far as I know as long as one does not make money on the art. many other things are in the public domain and belong to everybody even if first copywrited like Kleenex name and Xerox name both of these are now public domain because they have become part of our language, Most fan photos are the same once published they have only control if using the original art as it is. once removed such as a drawing is very hard to prove copy and few ever complain. Especially if credits are given. Yet to have a good rep is so important that getting written permission to draw is always a good idea. If the person or company says no I think it is their loss not mine most I have asked were flattered to have me like their work so muck they gave the ok. however most have been lost on old computers and therefore all that art becomes practice unless you want to risk future lawsuit. My advice buy a copy and then do a backup with any means you have that is allowed for only one copy LOL just joking truth is no one on this site is in any danger unless they try to sell or enter a contest, then you may or may not run into trouble. Just don't do that and you will never run into trouble. Pirating is always bad because it takes away the living of others. Most will love it if you first buy their photo then use it some are still up tight and the call is ask ask ask and get it in writing, if digital make a back up and add date with the backed up version, print that out and mail it to yourself. You work to hard to be called a thief. Just don't take that chance. NEVER

Long post here,

No, you can not do this at all. You dont own the right to the original. I am an educator and part of a committee who looks at these copyright guidelines ever year for state art competitions. Yes, students can use for learning purpose only but can not be displayed in any form or fashion, not even to give to the Principal as a gift. First of all, this should not be practiced by teachers in the first place. The National Art Educators Association does not support this practice. It should be direct observation , your own experiences, from your imagination , or your own photography taken by your or directed to be taken by you. Students should not be encouraged to use photographs taken by the teacher. What creative thought process did they use, nothing, just drew a duplicate of the work.

You can not use magazine photos - the photographer owns the rights, you could get permission and that would work.
Now, we all know that we have taken work from someone, even the masters use to do it ( but they did not have to deal with copyright at that time and usually were working under the direction of the original master.

Disney is the worlds worse, never ever ever use anything of theirs, not even to paint on your childs wall at home.
Trust me.

Just because copyright permission was given to someone does not mean you have that permission. Ex. Martin Luther King's photo and speech has been given to so many, but even schools can not use a photo or his speech and air it over the school tv station, big no no

What about that movie that is shown on Fridays in the classroom, such as Shrek, Big no no, that is a public setting, you can not buy or rent any Hollywood movies and show in a public setting.

How do we instruct our students, you get that sketchbook and camera, begin sketching and taking pictures. Just keep this in mind, if you did not take the original picture, you can not use it in anyway, one exception..... or two...


-family pictures or someone commissions you to work from a persoanl photo they have taken. But to post anywhere you need their permission. For example, the one I posted about two days ago of the baseball player, his family gave me permission to use so that I may advertise a unique way to do Graduation Invitations. So I own the copyright to that, but the mother and I are close, very close.

Hope this helps some.

When someone uploads a picture for use by others and it states it is use by others, that is okay. In the educational system, we do not support this however with our students. Now, if a student is doing this awesome landscape painting and wants to put a deer in it but has not studied the anatomy of a deer, then a reference source is needed. Some teachers go a step farther, it is called the plastic animals from the Dollar Store.

It is great to have this discussion and facts about copyrights. Copying is a great way to learn and practice. If you chance a picture to some degree is more yours? Is there any part of a picture you can use that is allowed without copyright infringement?

Lorr

This all seems so silly lol .. I think most understand the copyright laws ...but many many people are painting Micky mouse on the walls of their childerens bedrooms ....my niece for school did a drawing of MLK taken from a photograph of him .
Kids watching a film in school lol I do not think the copyright police are going to come and ticket them .
I have over the years taken many pictures from a magazine because I loved the pose and used it for a drawing ...I most likely do the hair different or put other clothes on him or her but its not mine to start with .
I do not think you should say copy ones work and call it your own .. if you are drawing a picture from say Gary Greene's gallery and its the same as his then give him credit when you list the drawing ... to sell it would be a bit more of a issue .
People get scared about this and I never give it a worry ...just make the drawing your own .. get ideas from others is okay .. just keep yourself from copying it .

Also Kim, copyright laws are like most other laws, they are made to protect people who wish to make money from what they create or work for. If a person is not making money there is not much danger or advantage in a lawsuit.

bob

I agree Bobby .

I found this article very interesting: http://fairusenetwork.org/reference/c-infringement.php

This website has a lot of interesting and clearly written information on "Fair use" of copyrighted material.

I just finished reading a pdf of a legal finding between a website owner who was suing Google.com.
http://www.nixonpeabody.com/copyright_article.asp?id=123

The court ruled infavor of Google.com because their "Thumbnail" images fell under the "Fair use" exclusion. I haven't yet found how big a file can be and still fall under the definition of "Thumbnail". However, a thumbnail by the courts definition appears to be "a reduced resolution of the original image."

If Drawspace's limit of 200 kb falls under the "Fair use" exclusion as a Thumnail then there should be no problem. The way I understand this particular case finding it is the full sized images that would be protected under copyright infringement laws.

bob

Thanks Bobby I read those articals and they were very cut and dry on the subject of copyright ....again thank you for finding them and posting them .. it should clear up some of the fear people have .

How about fanart? is that allowed? because i frankly don't see the point in restricting people to draw the things they love. I mean if a little kid is drawing his favorite cartooncharacter is that wrong? I don't think so. So why would it be wrong if an adult would lets say draw Jack Sparrow because she loves the those pirate films and she wants to show to people. Hey look i drew Jack Sparrow! neat huh? And because of that disney is going the sue her? I doubt it, unless ofcourse she would try to sell it for profit and claimes that Jack Sparrow was her idea. But obviously she doesn't , so I really don't see a problem.

So my question is: Are you really breaking copyright laws when it's common knowlegde that the character you just drew isn't yours?

It just concerns me, because I really like to draw cartoon/anime/manga characters, just because I love them so much.

you will get so many different answers .. some from ones who worry about every little thing and then some from those who may go too far .. I would say in my opinion only that drawing Jack Sparrow is fine ...or any actress or actor or even micky mouse I mean people do it all over ..you will see it here posted so I dont see that being a problem .. now drawing a picture that one has already done and calling it your own I wouldnt do that .. I always ask first if I can draw the picture .
also some people take images off the internet and draw them like a flower or a apple .. and some feel that is wrong others dont .. to be safe just add that photographers name to it .

Thanks I feel a little bit safer to post stuff now!

Ok...

I have been lurking and not really replying to these threads, as I tend to make things explosive. In almost all my endeavors. It is the very reason, that as I have grown older and have many children, that I have become more low - keyed. I am not anti- government, but I am anti-establishment. I been involved as a respondent in many cases that resemble things that have been asked here. [respondent: the person or entity that is being sue]
First, If one of you become rich, hit the lottery or something else and you purchase say, The statue of "DAVID" you only own the statue. You do not own , nor can you control the copyright of it. There is none. Ownership of an item does not automatically give or imply ownership of copyright. If you reproduce, by your own hand, the "mona lisa" and put it up for sale, anyone person or corporation, or conglomerate that says you are in violation of copyright is Bulls****** you. There is no copyright in existence as of today, of the Monalisa. I was quietly involved in "Bridgemen V. Corel" Essentially, anything that is in a museum that is of an original creation and falls out of the copyright schema, is available to reproduce by the sweat of the brow. OWNERSHIP DOES NOT CONVEY COPYRIGHT! However, If I commission one of you to do a piece for me, It then becomes more complicated. In many of the previously explained posts, there is a crossover into other parts of the law, and an un-bundling of services starts to occur. By the way...

HI Brenda...Hi group

Marcus
retired attorney, teacher and professional goof!

Hi Marcus!

Welcome to our Drawspace family! Thank you for adding your "2-sense", which with your background is worth millions!

To everyone - this wonderful man, a friend of mine, is an artist, a highly respected expert on copyright and has kindly offered his expertise and services to our group.

While copyright laws are not always fair, they are what they are, and meant to protect artists.

Looking forward to hearing from you more often.

Brenda

Thank you for the information I found it valuable, educational and very simple. Will do

i hope you don't plan on enforceing these bogus rules because that would require numerious people working fulltime.

This is a very complex issue. When an artist creates a work of art he owns the copyright for that work - even if the work uses the names, likenesses, or concepts covered by another form of protection called trademarking. Paramount owns the trademarks to the Trek ships in terms of both the likenesses and the names, so to use the ships in any form of advertising would be inviting a full photon barrage

However, using the ships in art is different, because it's an 'interpretative expression' of someone else's concept. We can't sell these images, but posting them for everyone to enjoy is very much a grey area, and even if Paramount got it into their heads to sue they'd have a hard time doing it. It's like painting a picture of a Coke bottle. If you produce one oil and hang it in a museum no one's going to say anything - first, because there's been no money involved, and second because it's an interpretive re-expression of an existing protected concept. If you sell 1000 copies of the print, however, Coca-Cola will send you a nice letter asking you for a donation to their legal fund.

To make matters even move complex, there are several levels of both Trade marking and Copyrighting. For example, if you look at the box of the big Micromachines StarTrek Collectors’ Set, you’ll see little symbols beside some of the ship images and names - but not all of them. The ‘TM’ means that Paramount is claiming a Trademark for the name, for the appearance of the ship, or both. If you see a little ‘R’ in a circle,that means that the mark is REGISTERED, which means that they filed some more paperwork after claiming the mark and that if someone else uses the trade dress commercially he had better have his shields up AND the cloak engaged....

If you see a ‘C’ in a circle, or the words ‘Copyright’, it means that someone is claiming a copyright on a piece of intellectual property or on a work or art or something else original. This is the second level of copyrighting. The first level is always there, which is why the forums on Compuserve saying that they won’t accept anything copyrighted is silly, because EVERYTHING, every work of art, every work of fiction, is always copyrighted even if the artist doesn’t claim it....

Anyway, the third level of copyrighting is REGISTERED copyright. The difference is that someone takes his claimed work and sends a copy to the Patent and Trademark office and gets a registry number for the work. If someone wrongfully distributes an unclaimed copyrighted work, they can be sued, but the artist’s chances of collecting are a bit slim. If the work is claimed, then the artist will probably collect, but he’ll have to pay his own legal fees. And he can only collect actual damages, or the monetary damages suffered because someone else copied and distributed his work.

If, on the other hand, someone wrongfully copies and distributes or sells a registered copyrighted work, the guilty party can be sued. And if he loses, he pays the plaintiff’s lawyer, he pays actual damages, AND HE PAYS STATUTORY DAMAGES, which are rather large and run into five figures PER infringement.

Now, when Eric post's his meshes - which have quite a lot of time invested in them - I post them freely for the enjoyment of everyone because I want it to be VERY clear that I DON’T sell them. However, I post them with a restriction that they are NEVER to be used commercially, which is mostly to protect ME because I don’t want to be caught up in the fight when Paramount sees Trek ships in someone’s advertising...

If I sold the starship meshes, well, I’d be profiting from material derived from someone else’s trade dress and my shields would take a hammering from the USS Paramount’s main legal batteries. HOWEVER, I took the time to register my mesh, which means I sent a diskette, a form, and $20 to Washington DC. SO... let’s say that I post my mesh with a statement saying no one else can use it commercially. I can do that because I built the mesh and I own the copyright on it. I don’t own the trademark, however, so I can’t sell the mesh. I can tell you how you can’t use it, but I can’t tell you how you can use it.....

Still with me? Good....

Now, let’s say someone takes my posted mesh and uses it in a game or in advertising. This has happened, that I know of, five times. Let’s forget Paramount’s interest, which is foremost, and just consider me. Someone has infringed on my property, which I can’t sell, but which is registered copyrighted. SO... I can take them to court and collect lawyers fees and statutory damages, but I can’t collect actual damages because I could never have sold the mesh in the first place, which makes my actual damages nil, nothing, zero, ni-chev-o. So, this puts me in the interesting theoretical position THAT EVEN IF PARAMOUNT PUBLISHED A BOOK OF FAN ART AND INCLUDED MY STILLS WITHOUT MY PERMISSION I COULD SUE THEM! I couldn’t CHARGE them for the priviledge of publishing my art, but I could collect if they infringed FIRST! My only control over the art and over the meshes is the power to with hold permission and to sue once there has been an infringement....

It all gets very complicated, as you can see now, when works are DERIVATIVE upon someone else’s works. We acknowledge openly that our works are derivative, to keep things crystal clear. Everyone enjoy. In actually, no one like us would ever have the resources to do legal battle with Paramount. Nor would we want to, and we’re all very grateful they allow us poor rabid fans the outlets to our creativity they do allow us

www.copyright.gov

Oops. . . does that mean we are not supposed to post our drawing attempts of the lessons in our gallery area? I put some of mine there. . . I did not put a copyright on them and did indicate they were my attempts from Brenda's lessons. But if they are not supposed to be there, I will remove them right away. Do they supposed to be somewhere else maybe? Sorry, I'm new to the site.

Hoom.
I just posted a couple of pieces that I consider "fanart". They weren't replicated from pre-existing images of the characters, though that may be tough to prove. But the poses and all are original, but the subject may be from a video game or comic book. I'm certainly not trying to claim a copyright on them and I've never made a single cent from my work. It's all just for fun and fulfillment. Are those going to be okay to post here, or should I remove them? Let me know and it won't be a problem.

While many people use reference images for practicing and learning to draw, there are problems associated with that practice if you use images that are not provided in royalty and copyright free sites.

Even with available images and permission to use them, many organizations that offer exhibitions or have formed societies are no longer allowing use of reference images that are not your own. The rationale is that the image is the work of another person - their composition, their thought process, their manipulation of light etc and you are simply copying that person's piece. I can see the reasoning behind this, as some exhibitions are getting art pieces of the same subject from artists - not good.

The rule of thumb is that if it is available on the internet, and not within a site that provides images for use then you'd better have permission to use it. In 99.9% of cases, permission isn't denied if you ask the owner of the photo or organization that is placing it and you explain that you are using it for educational purposes, not commercial use.

If the photo is shown on another site and you don't provide reference to the owner of the photo, you could have problems. The laws of copyright as others have said here, are very complex and I'm no expert by any means.

To be safe, and especially if you are going to show a piece or sell it, then use your own references or make sure you have permission to use the ones you are drawing from.

Many people here are drawing celebrities. That too poses challenges as, while they are in the public eye, the images are copyrighted and not available for use on other sites. My advice if you are going to draw celebrities is to reference the image with a link to the site where it is hosted and try to obtain permission to use the image before you draw.

sorry Brenda I should have read the blogs first... thanks for replying though.