..::The Weekly Poll!::..
The poll we just can't seem to get enough off!



Hiya there, folks! This week, we'll be discussing digital art!
Share with us!


Enjoy the poll !


/Drawer32

I don't have a draw tablet and don't plan to get one.

I have to work with computers all day long and so I much prefer to do art using the old-fashioned way!!! It seems that its much more relaxing and fulfilling to me that way, not to mention, portable.

I agree with Rainy. Maybe I'm just an old-fashioned girl, but I've never cared about computers much. Check email, browse drawspace, then off. No cell phone, no Ipod. I realize digital art takes plenty of skill and imagination, but truthfully it doesn't impress me as much as pencil or paint on real paper with real hands. Maybe digital is the future of art, but if that's true then it makes me sad. I mean no offense to anyone who does digital art, it's just a personal opinion.

Hi Folks;
Well as you know I do digital art.
I like it, it is fun to do and it is difficult.
Maybe there is some way of doing it that I don't know about, but the way I do it is just as difficult as the old way.
I still draw and paint the old way also, in my opinion digital art will never replace hand drawn art.
There is a satisfaction from digital art just like hand art to me.
The major drawback to digital art from my viewpoint is the fact that I can't do anything larger than 8 1/2 x 11!
If you run out of ink in the printer you are out of luck!
I'm getting a new wooden four legged easel for Father's Day so you know I'll be doing some drawing on that!
Anyway, this is just my opinion about it, I like both methods.

Just simply another way to draw.

The thing is that it is not so simple. At least the way I have been studying it. I like sculpting 3D digital art. I have yet to produce something to date because I'm still building skills. It will probably take a few more months before I post something here.

I use ZBrush from Pixologic. It is amazing how you can develop 3D art with this tool. It's like working with clay and sculpting. This is what interests me about digital art. The 3D stuff. Extremely cool. I will always use traditional drawing to workout compositions and ideas though.

My advice is if you are starting out with an art career, you should be spending a lot of time working with these kinds of tools in addition to traditional methods.

I agree with RJ, you should try and keep up with the times. I dont think digital art will ever take the place of traditional though. And I suppose the biggest draw back with digital is that you will never have a tangible original

I'm with RJ and Lance its just simply another way to draw.And its not easy at all!!
I like to try everything...give it a shot

Humm :/ I think the 'not easy' part must be a matter of opinion.

I think drawing digital is Way easier then traditional way.
Though I would never give up on the traditional, since it's more of a challenge to me .

You may be right that the EASY part is a question of opinion, but it is also a question of the form of digital art and the techniques applied.

It's like Joe said, "Maybe there is some way of doing it that I don't know about, but the way I do it is just as difficult as the old way."

In my case the difficulty is in mastering the tools. Most of the things that I want to produce digitally I would not even attempt with a pencil. At the same time I wouldn't try to reproduce a pencil drawing with digital media. Each one has its place. One thing that I am sure of though is that recovering from an error is a heck of a lot easier. You don't even need to protect the paper from smudges and finger prints.

but you do have the digital original which today can be reproduced on paper or canvas to the point where you would be hard pressed to tell it from an original drawing or painting. JD Hillberry mentions these methods on his site.

This program sounds interesting, I'll have to try it someday. Thanks RJ !

Digital art is just as valid as any other art form. My husband does digital art and his work astounds me. I personally can't stand to mess with the computer to do art. Guess it's because I spent 20+ years doing computer aided design in the engineering field. I'll do my art by hand, but admire people who can master the computer as an art tool.

Drawing and painting with a digital program is no more or less difficult than with traditional materials. I think it is as difficult to master the skills needed for both( but yes, error correction is far easier digitally). There are a few programs which emulate real drawing..the one I like is called "ArtWeaver" that has 'anti-aliasing' which removes the jagged pixelization other programs have so that your curved line looks as it should. It is freeware. One thing, drawing is extremely difficult using the mouse, so you should get a digital "tablet" and pen.
note: I wish I were participating in the current "challenge", but I can't pick up a pencil. I am watching the wonderful work being posted there but right now it all looks too hard and everyone else's work looks too good.

John

That is just a fase you are going throught, your artwork is wonderful and you know it!! you have proved that here so many times....do not underestimate yourself.Please draw for us Digital, pencil...whatever, but don't give up!!!!

take care my friend

Definitely not my cup of tea.

It seems such an impermanent artform to me (probably because with one keystroke I can make anything disappear into the ether, now don't ask me which key because I have no idea how I do it??? ). I also find trying to anything freehand on a computer a bit like patting your head & rubbing your tummy!

It may be just me but I like to get my hands dirty, whether its out in the garden (no gloves here) or explaining the purple stains on your hands in the operating theatre as you scrub up, after a weekend of pastel fun! I just love to get in there boots and all. I really felt one step removed from my work when I started watercolour after spending most of my time blending with fingers, I just feel the computer would be another way of making me feel further removed from my art. Its hard to explain.

However, I am the proud owner of a few pieces of absolutely beautiful digital art from some ATC exchanges on Wet Canvas. I wouldn't swap the digital portrait of my dog who has passed away for anything! So hat's off to the talented Digi-folk! But I need to feel a pencil in my hand and the graphite on my fingers.

I voted when this first came out, and I will finally add just a short note to all of your comments.

I actually teach Computer Graphics (high school) and I consider it is just another medium for creating art - still uses the elements of line, shape, texture, color, value and space as well as the principles of design. When you take into consideration the development of composition, creation of characters, work with color palettes, etc., it has to be considered art.

I do some computer work but mine is almost all strictly Graphic Design, not a computer version of hand work like drawing or painting. I do teach my students, however, methods for just about anything you could do with Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign and Freehand. They really enjoy it and I have had several students continue in the profession of Commercial Art after H.S.

To me it's just another medium in which to create art.

From the dawn of oil painting until this very moment people are still painting in oils. I don't think one medium will ever totally replace another.

I work alot in Coreldraw and Photoshop, but personally there is nothing in this world like the smell of freshly sharpened pencils!!

I do both, so I'd have to put my vote towards it being another way to draw. Better? Nah, just another way that is inherantly interesting to some ( including me ) and not so much to others. Having done a bit of freelance comic rendering I have come to appreciate what can be done with some of the programs we have today. It still takes practice and talent ... most of the best advice I've gathered up in rendering were actually found on painting sites, dealing with color theory and composition.

Make art in whatever way makes you comfortable and appeals to you, that's my opinion.

Digital doesn't teach you how to draw a face, a gesture, a pose, how to express an emotion, how to shade, select the right colors or make a proper composition (just to name a few things). Even when it comes to the tools, digital can be quite a challenge, try for example to immitate a traditonal pencil in either Photoshop or Painter, the results are never satisfying, at least for me.

I do think that digital allows for greater accuracy (you can zoom in, sample colors, use layers, etc.) and that it can be time saver, but easier...no...unless you consider Photoshop effects and layer styles "art".

Most people go from traditional to digital, I went the other way around, because to get better digitally, I needed to get better traditionally (in drawing that is). Personally I don't care so much about traditional painting; too expensive, messy, stinky and I don't have the space to store all the paintings.

My ideas about art are very simply; try to impress the viewer/listener/reader (depending on the kind of art we're talking about), regardless the tools or media you're using (although I have something against people who call themselves artist by combining some photographs with a few effects and brush strokes).

The different viewpoints expressed in this discussion are varied and interesting, my personal opinion is that digital art is just another medium that artists are using to express them and capture the world around them. As the world evolved and different art movements were born, Expresiionalism. Pointelism. Dadaism etc, each movement met with resistance from the established artists of the time.

We live in a digital world, artists will express themselves with the tools that are current, at the edge so to speak. Good digital art, even if it is a manipulated photograph is no less valuable than the great renaissance pieces of the past. They are just different. I think that the work should be appreciated irrespective of the medium used.

All too often, we as artists are of the opinion that unless it is an oil painting it has no value.

Regards wayneo

I agree!! I put its another great way to draw...just not for me! I don't have a drawign tablet, but I love to see what others do with it. Pretty amazing.

I would say, when considering the manipulation of photographs, to be original and creative, the artist should have also taken the photograph as well as manipulated it - not just pulled something off of the internet. It is almost more of a skill in computer use to just manipulate the application rather than take an interesting photograph then change it. Aside from the fact, anytime you use someones elses work for any reason, it is no longer your work alone. Just because I can copy a photograph or work of art to show my skill in drawing, it does not express my creative side; it is not an original work, what I would consider a "work of art", but more as a practice of skill. I would say the same thing about the computer application. If you are manipulating someone else's work then you are simply practicing the skill of using the art program of choice.

Most of the 'imaging' programs are designed for manipulating photos and other art work and most people use them that way. But, there are a few programs that are primarily for creating original art work and allow working in a close simulation of using traditional media. I've tried several of these and my favorite is a freeware program called "ArtWeaver". For those with a fat bank account, the Corel programs are outstanding. Personally, I consider the work produced with such programs artistically equivalent to that done by traditional means and that implies that the person doing it is every bit as much an artist as one using traditional media.

I agree with the previous post, that drawing/painting by copying a photo or other artwork is just craftsmanship. For that matter, I consider photo-realistic reproduction, no matter what the subject, also just craftsmanship. An artist is someone who interprets what he/she sees(or imagines) and shows us his vision of it. Using whichever kind of tools, they make a statement, or create a mood or challenge us to interpret it our own way. A very realistic portrait drawing can only cause me to admire the skill it took to do it, but a great characiture stimulates an intellectual response to the art it is.

I might add, that I have yet to demonstrate to myself, that I have an artistic bone in my body; even though I can produce a credible drawing of things. My consolation is : I have to believe that if I can appreciate art when I see it..then I must have it in me to produce it! Someday(it better hurry), I will be inspired and create my first art worthy of the name.

John

I hate these subjects lol people are so funny about words and what they mean lol

Then say what you mean..

John

I am not going to Debate with you john lol .....just making a comment

I must say I respect those who are digitally gifted. The things that can be done digitally are simply amazing! I have seen so many works that are mind blowing, and sometimes have a difficult time discerning them from a photo because they look so real.

However, because of personal taste, I find art created via computer as rather cold. Kind of like it is lacking something. Perhaps, in my mind, I can't visualize the artist behind the work. Or maybe once I know it is digital, I give the computer more credit than the artist. I am in no way saying this is a correct way of thinking, and I'm also not saying this is fair to those who create digital art. I really just have a hard time appreciating as much as others may.

I also feel there is more skill involved in traditional art. Paint, graphite, pastels, colored pencils, etc... The computer doesn't require you to mix colors like a painter might. Getting that shade you desire takes a lot of skill and insight into what YOU see as needed, to obtain that perfect color. Computers just lay it all out there and with one click you have it. Not to mention the fact that there is usually an UNDO icon, that you can easily click, to undo whatever you don't like.

To me, art is simply the creative expression by humans and has many paths. So I believe digital creations are works of art. I believe those who create said works are artists. Just not my preference. Still very beautiful in their own way though.

Cantwin.....said perfectly I agree .

i do digital art as my main stay art from its just another form of drawing/painting and it improves your skills in traditional media

the computer does not do much in my work it just provides the canvas and the pencils and paint

saying the computer does it all is just like saying the pencil does it all!

It requires a good firm understanding of line balance and economy
and colour space and theory

the undo button is just like painting over your work or rubbing it out.

Its like saying computer printed letters are not acceptable I prefer typewriters they are real letters you cant press delete!

There once was a Russki called Comrade
..who got miffed at the stiffs in the crowd
So he gave em' a left and a right and a cross
..and the cheers were so long and loud


John

Jamie's correct. Digital drawing/painting is very similar to using traditional media - you still need to be able to draw and paint in order to get any use out of a graphics tablet, and I think that experience in both digital and traditional media is synergistic. Digital's also great for trying out alterations on a work, arranging compositions, and so on.



Colour-mixing is perceived to be a tricky area, and I am involved with (actually, co-run) a site which functions as a sort of research group for approaches to colour in oil-painting. We believe that there are more logical ways to approach colour than those generally taught in art-schools and current books. Colour can be thought of as being laid out in a 3-dimensional volume - with 3 parameters, hue, value, and chroma - where: value increases vertically, hue is set out circumferentially, and chroma increases outward radially - this colourspace was described by A H Munsell in the early 20thC. This relates to the HSV colourspace used as one of the ways of representing colour digitally. We are developing approaches for oil-paint which offer ways of precisely identifying colour, and colour relationships, for objects painted from life, which have some similarities to the sorts of colour-spotting approaches which can be used digitally, and by "photorealist" painters who copy photographs.


Dave

I would compare computer / typewritten letters as the same. That is, they are both rather 'cold' forms of communication. Perhaps that is why it is customary to sign letters, in ink, with a pen and your own hand, to put a warmer personal touch on it. To give the reader a sense that those are your words.
I would much prefer a hand written letter though. The words would have more meaning to me and I think it is more personal. Maybe the reason is because I feel like the writer has thought out their words more carefully, and taken a longer time putting them on paper. It also conveys a sense of personality. The way the letters are written, the angle at which the paper is positioned, left handed versus right handed can be known. You can tell a lot about someone by their hand writing.
Sure, machines make things go a little quicker but there is no substitute for something done by hand. The mistakes and all make it warmer and more personalized.

Have you used a graphics tablet at all? This comment leads me to believe that perhaps you've not actually tried one? While there are multiple ways of creating and manipulating images on computer - using a graphics tablet, stylus, and painting software, the image is "done by hand".

In my former profession I spent 8-10 hours a day using a tablet and stylus as well as several different programs. I did this for about five years so I am well aware of the skill required to use these instruments.

I think you may have misinterpreted my argument though. My point, simply stated, is that I admire anyone who knows what they are doing with a tablet. I think they are artists and I willingly admit they are skilled artists. (see prior posts) My personal taste however draws my appreciation more towards traditional methods. I find there is more to admire when you can actually see brush strokes or see layers of paint, pastels, pencils, whatever!

If I had a choice between a print versus an original of my favorite artist's work, I'd pick the original. I think most people find value in original hand worked anything. Whether it is art or not.

I'd stick by my statement that machines do make things faster. There is virtually no set up or clean up. There is no running out of a particular color at 3 am and having to improvise by mixing your own! It is a very useful tool to have but not the same.

I'll say it again, I admire digital artists, or anyone that creates anything.

Aha! - OK - thanks for the clarification

I can understand and appreciate the range of views and personal preferences for different media here, but hope at this point the discussions in this thread might cause the two members who voted "I don't consider digital drawing as art" (perhaps on the basis that they thought the computer does it all?) to contemplate reassessing that viewpoint


Dave

I totaly got it when you spoke .....as this time you made it pretty clear .. I agree with the whole thing .. i think people are too hard on people who have used a tablet but ...to use a tablet takes skill ....I have tried and my work looks like a childs compared to what i can do with colored pencil so i love it both ways ....if someone wanted to draw me something as a gift on tabelt and printed it and framed it .. I would feel just as proud to show it off as a drawing ...cause I know I have a LOONG way to go to use anything computer to draw my art . lol

good conversation

I am not sure that there is such a clear distinction between art and digital art. For example, if drawings and photos are cleaned up using a computer, what category does that fit in?

There are things that can be done with one, that just cannot be done with the other. Why not use both?

I personally consider computer as a technique, on the same level as chinese brush, pastel, watercolour or oil painting. Artwork from each technique has its own beauty and can go very far in some direction that the other techniques cannot.

Nobody compares the beauty of a chinese ink with that a pastel or an oil. So, we should not compare digital art with traditional arts. The norms are different! To me, beauty (of an artwork) means emotion to the spectator, whatever is the technique.

When we study a technique, we must spend years to learn and practice. Some digital work might appear “cold”, because the artist has not enough mastered the technique, and in his (her) creation, the part of the creator is less evident than the part of the machine. And the machine is “cold”.

My big problem with computer drawing is the fact the fundamental digital colours are RVB, and not those of the artist. The composition of the basic RVB to get a given colour is not easy.

I create image directly, not from photo.

I have always been intressed in digital art since I was a child, when I did clothes on MSpaint called "dolls" or "dollz". Now I have even a tablet, and drawing my comics in Photoshop CS. But I still making tradional art since I don't want to forget the main skills. I have class in oil, tempera, and soon watercolour.
I think it can be good to learn some digital art if you want a job of design or illustration.

using a computer is not art at all the computer is doing the work.

I think you need to find out a bit more about it.

I can assure you that the computer is NOT doing the work, if we are talking about digital drawing using a wacom tablet and software such as photoshop or painter. (It would be comparable to stating that oil paintings are not art because the brush does all the work).

If you are thinking of computer-generated images such as are used as visual effects in movies, the computer certainly isn't doing all the work there, either.

Dave

Dave, keep cool!
By the way, is your research group in oil painting colours accessible from the internet ?

Hi, I'm cool - sorry if I gave you, mitch883, or anyone else the impression that I wasn't - "tone of voice" can be difficult to communicate online.

While we can all hold opinions, I suspect the one Mitch holds that "the computer does all the work" is not based on any significant experience in using the tools in question (as that's all they are, tools). I'd certainly be happy to discuss it further with him (or anyone else who'd like to). It is true that using the computer can be faster than doing things in traditional media - which is why its become ubiquitous in the visual effects industry, and commercial illustration. Thre fact that its fast, and that things can be easily changed actually make it a good way of learning some skills that can then be transferred back into traditional-media drawing and painting.



Its private, in that you have to apply to join, in order to be able to access it - its free, but applicants have to justify that they have reason to join, usually by pointing to some work online to show they are actively painting in oils. We set it up that way as it is geared to research (at least to some extent) rather than being a general art forum - it also means we can keep bandwidth etc down by limiting it to those seriously interested (if you're not an oil-painter, then there's not much there which would be of interest, actually, as its mostly on pretty advanced technical stuff to do with materials and so on). I'll not post the link here, but if anyone's interested, they are welcome to send me a PM.

Dave

Thank for all. Dave,
Regards,
An

My two cents worth: Art in any medium is valid - so long as the artist creates. The creative process is what makes art - the form which it takes can be almost anything.

I'm not a technologically inclined person. I don't use digital art programs, don't have the urge, but then again, when presented with a computer and cell phone of my own to start using, I hissed, yowled, clawed and spat - for a while. Now I like using them both. The cell phone keeps me safe on my long commute, and without the computer, I couldn't chat with all the interesting people at Drawspace. Sometimes you just have to get accustomed to the idea.

Well said NCGirl. This is an area that I have been looking to get in to. If someone can suggest a model. I guess the Wacom brand is the way to go. Any help in directing me is greatly appreciated!
Thanks
Ken

Digital art really is art, you can create fantastic things if you want to. But I prefer to use pencils, and get my hands all grey just because I use them in stead of tools to make shadows less sharp.

I say it is an other form of art. I have done some digital art. When trying to draw or painting something you need to use all the rules you do as if you were drawing or painting on paper or canvas. You need light, shadow, highlights etc. The computer does not do that for you. You need to figure what tool you can use to recreate textures.

I also like to draw cartoons, and have used vectors to do so. To manipulate vectors takes a lot of time and practice. It is amazing at some of the things you can do with them. Somethings that would be hard to do with a pencil.

As for photography I love digital photography. You can take multiple pictures and make a panorama. You can take one thing out of one picture and put in another. You can restore old photos. I have taken photos of a beautiful flowering tree with a power line going right through the middle. I was able to to take the power line out of the photo. You can make your photos look better. There are just so many things you can do with a photo when you put a digital photo in a photo editing program.

Tammie

Well for me, I use a computer for work all day and so for enjoyment, I prefer pencil and paper. I have never used the computer to generate art and although I have manipulated photos, I found it way too long and time consuming - just lack of skill I expect! When I see art created by someone on a computer I think it is a real achievement.....something I cannot do.

This conversation is interesting but I find that it all falls back to peoples interpretation of the word ART. When I looked it up the meaning of the word ART it is "the creation of beautiful or thought-provoking works" - needless to say, illustrations done by computer are beautiful and sometimes thought provoking.........so my vote is yes, it is art! although not a form that I currently do - but I do not paint in oils, sculpt or do printmaking either