Here is another spin from my previous topic "Why does one draw?" What about criticism? I looked at the forum and didn't see this topic on Criticism. Perhaps it has been mentioned before I don't know?

I'm sure as an artist; you have been criticized for one reason or another. This question is to first find out how you deal with criticism?

Secondly do you feel criticism makes you a better artist?

Perhaps you have a story that you would care to share with this community on your experience. Was it pleasant, or was it painful.

I like to have some criticism to improve what I'm doing. How would one gauge improvement if there were none, so I continually ask for constructive criticism.

Personally, I deal with criticism in several ways. First off, I try to understand and determine is the criticism credible. Does the person have a reason to be a critique? If the person is a teacher/instructor, naturally, I would believe that the expectation is some sort of constructive criticism.

On the other hand, if it is someone who knows absolutely nothing about drawing or art, then criticism should be taken lightly, but perhaps the input could valuable. The observer could be seeing something that is totally obvious that is worth mentioning by someone. Clearly no one wants embarrassment. How I try to avoid embarrassment is to avoid publishing my work until I feel confident that it is ready for criticism. Mostly, I try to recognize the source and go from there. As an artist who publishes their work should expect some criticism I would think?

Please share your opinion.

Regards

There's a nice article on the topic at WetCanvas!

My personal story involves learning to deal with criticism from my parents. I am 44 years old and my parents are wonderful people, who are very supportive of my art and always ask to see what I've done and lavish it with praise. But they've strongly disliked virtually all of the drawings I've done of them. I was baffled at first; they're actually lovely drawings, some of my better work. But this drawing of my Dad, and this sketch of my Mom, for example, they didn't like at all:
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They said the likenesses were bad, or the lighting is weird, or why is that mark there, or this mark here?

It took me quite a while to understand that what they didn't like is the idea of the drawings. It made them uncomfortable to be depicted as old folks (despite the fact that, you know, they kind of are.) On the other hand, they absolutely loved this one of when they were young:
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Which is reconstructed from a tiny photo and is definitely idealized. Of course, I did not know them when they were that age, so there's really no question that the other two drawings are better likenesses! In a way, those drawings are insulting to them, even though I see them as warm tributes. They see themselves as young and vital (doesn't everybody!)

I think the lesson here is that when you are confused by criticism of your work, it might be because the critic isn't saying what they really feel. Your art may make them unhappy for some reason unrelated to the technical aspects: for example, it might make them think, and they don't like thinking! Or they may perceive it as contrary to their politics. But they might not feel comfortable with expressing these feelings to you, if they even consciously understand them. So instead they'll try to find fault with the art on a tangible level. If you're confused by criticism, either try to understand it on a deeper level, or simply let it go.

i dont mind getting constructive criticism but i hate it when my work is picked apart perhaps some ppl can not determine the fine line between constructive criticism and just being picky..i personally seldom give criticism unless pushed rather hard into doing so...i believe that art is such a subjective subject that what one person may find awful another will think it is wonderful and vice versa..to me i am my own worse critic. when something isnt right, i usually know it my self and dont need it repeatedly pointed out..here on drawspace my work that i post is a journey..a visual reference to see how i have grown..and i have grown a whole lot since i have been here..

for instance if picasso posted his abstract work here i would dislike that art very much..wouldnt hang it on my wall if it was given to me..( a number of famous artist i feel that way about)..but everyone else is gaga over him...me im sorry but i just dont see it..so art is such a subjective and personal opinion that i dont criticize..i comment on what i like and leave the rest, if i find lots of fault with a piece there will be a person right behind me that will feel exactly the opposite..

I was going to say Constructive criticism is very healthy for growth .. like watering your plants ....for someone to pick apart to just critisize then I feel that can be discouraging in growth ..like having too many weeds in your pot lol .

If one wants to get CC then they can visit here and post their work http://www.drawspace.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2969
I dont give it unless I am asked personaly ....I do not concider myself a expert on art and therefor do not feel that I can give it the way that would help one grow ....I may be able to say the shading is off but if I cant say how to fix it then I keep quiet ..I am pretty much that way with everything .. if I do not have a solution or idea for a possible better way I do not say anything at all .

How I deal with CC well I use it to better my work .. I have learned so much here at draw space and some of it was CC .

I feel somewhat responsible for this particular branch of the thread. I mentioned in the "why I draw" thread that I had trouble handling criticism. I realize this is a personal trait of mine. I know in my head that people are trying to point out areas I could improve, but like most people, I want to be liked! (Love me, love my artwork )I am getting better with it, and am making a conscious effort to not take criticism personally. I do find it daunting at times when I am really satisfied with my work and someone points out what they think is a flaw. I do agree, because art is subjective, beauty is in the eye of the beholder!?! Mostly though I find criticism can be helpful in tweaking a drawing.

Trish

I would like to say from the outset that I am in Kim's camp - I might recognise a problem or that something doesn't look right, but I am a long way from being able to offer a way to overcome that problem. But I will (if input is sought) make comment that an area blips on my radar but I also admit that I don't have a solution.

Also critique is different to criticism. Usually a critique is a commentary on a finished piece, either sought from a teacher or from a judge - the type of constructive criticism we seek from fellow artists here, we want, I believe, for it to be accurate but without the slings & arrows. To me the sharpened arrow meant to hit a tender spot is what I associate with criticising.

I think we all hold each other's fragile feelings in kid gloves when we make suggestions or add a constructive comment. That is what is makes this such a supportive forum where we feel free enough to show our work, warts and all.

Its good to talk about all topics - this one especially as it is something that many of us find difficult, at times, to give & receive.

My personal feelings on one showing a finished drawing and saying ...they seem to be proud of ...and another saying ..weeell I see here you did not be as strong with the shadow as say over here .....myself I dont care much for that as your done and happy ...now if they say ..I am done but something is just not right ..well then I feel its ok to say what you feel may not be right ....its like at times someone will show a drawing in the gallery and it will catch my eye .. no it may not be perfect .. but I look in their gallery and notice that they have improved or notice that this is consistant with their other work .. so I will say I love this drawing .. I really do even with the ..warts and all ( I like that ..that was cute ) ...but it is not a place to say what you do not like ...they are done with the drawing .

CC vs Critique I guess i did not realize that it was all finished work .. I do not go in there much .

I agree with Kim and Sue (Bigs), I'm not an expert so I don't feel I know enought to criticise, but if someone askes for opinion and I see where the drawing can be improved I will give my opinion.
I like people to critique my work, as long as it is to show me how to do better, and I have had that kind of help here in the forums, Ernest and some other members have showed me some mistakes in my work, and that has helped me to improve them and I am very thankfull to them
Now if it is the kind of critique just to make you feel bad, from people who know nothing at all about drawing , that I do not like, but I can live with it

I was under the impression this site was developed as a learning site and for me that means any time someone has a suggestion or comment that would improve my work or encourage more learning, I would appreciate it, even if it is on something I simply posted but did not specifically ask for suggestions.
As others have stated, it isn't wise to critique on the side of subjective likes or dislikes, but if there is an obvious technical problem that can be corrected, constructive criticism can be very valuable.
I think the hardest aspect of drawing is "seeing" - particularly when we are drawing from a reference photo. I don't know how many times I have sat and looked at a drawing, trying to figure out what is wrong, and completely overlooked something that needed changed, but my daughter would come over and I would ask for her input and she would spot it immediately. A lot of the time I simply put a drawing aside and when I come back to it at a later time, I see the areas that need tweaked.
I really think it is always helpful when you can go back and work on something someone else notices - you end up much happier with your drawing because of it!
I sometimes hesitate to give input because I am newer to Drawspace than many of you and even though I am an art teacher, I certainly don't have all of the answers. I do probably have a tendency to look at your work through the eyes of a teacher - the technical aspects. My mind immediately thinks "balance, composition, contrast, proportions, etc". But I do very much enjoy all of the beautiful artwork here on Drawspace. I even encourage my students to join in.

You definitely do have to be mindful of the artist and their art when offering critique; some people take even constructive criticism poorly. Drawspace works best for people who leave their ego at the door and try to find all the help they can, but this doesn't describe everybody who saunters in!

Barb, I think it's the technical aspects that people need the most help with -- I've seen you offer some extremely useful criticism to folks here at the site, myself included -- so keep it up!

Although several people in this thread have said they hesitate to offer critique, I have to admit that I seek out opportunities to give it. I love teaching, and I've done professional training courses and been an extension-school instructor as part-time employment (although never teaching art!) It makes me immensely happy to be able to help people learn, and for me, that's one of my biggest reasons for being here!

Thank you, Ernest, I appreciate the encouragement.

I like criticism.I seldom come back later to fix my drawings but knowing where and what isn't OK helps me to make another drawing better. Don't be afraid to say what you see. This site is for learning.
Rude comments, like "This should be in your trashcan .", just show rudeness of their author. And I don't mind them. If a person is totally stupid, why should I care?

Anyway, I seldom give criticism. I think it's because I don't feel like a pro and I don't want to say something stupid that would ruin one's drawing...

I love criticism!

I try to have as much of it before I finish a drawing. It helps me see what I haven't seen, and correct it, if I can. I think it's an excellent way to grow. And I have appreciated very much the help on drawspace. So please, continue to help me.

I never take it personnally. The critique belongs to the drawing, because some drawings are better than the other, but I'm still the same.
Also, if I can correct something without redoing the piece, I will do it. Otherwise I theoretically learn the lesson.

And I have never had stupid criticism so far. But if I would, I would just dismiss it as what's its worth for...nothing.

Some take it well and others do not ..no matter how you deliver it .....so that is why we have the critique thread ...there your work can be critiqued ...I know it helps with growth but not everyone sees it that way .

Perhaps establish the way we send our criticism might be appropriate in the community? This probably is done already ”unspoken”, but maybe we can speak to it specifically? Example complements can be shared on the specific gallery, but criticism can be sent through an email. That way this would avoid the feeling of personal attack/embarrassment.

What does everyone think about that? I might try that on my profile in about me. I might spell it out in my profile of how I would prefer constructive criticism.

For me, I want constructive criticism to make me a better drawer/artist.

I totally overlooked your thread about the critique thread. I might try it out today. I just finished a drawing in colored pencil.

And post in the Gallery too.

Regards

That is what the thread is about .....that thread helps alot of people ....you can get CC almost anywhere in the forum and I do feel that it is very helpful ...some just do not ask for it and are offended when its given ..they may take it wrong ...its very tricky because the last thing I know I want to do is scare anyone from posting their work for fear of unwanted comments ....we are not all the judges of what is perfect and what is not ...as I said before I have seen plenty that may not be perfect but its ok because I find a uniqueness about alot of my favorite artist

Yes! There are artist that are famous for their uniqueness. You and I can probably name a few. The purpose of this thread was to get everyone's opinion on this subject matter. I now know how to walk that line a little easier, and that is to realize the sensitive around this issue. What I see so far is a mixed bag of what various expectations are and there are avenues to go to get feedback if necessary.

Today I did post my drawing in the official CC, and I did get some level of constructive criticism. I do admit, some of it was a bit overwhelming to me on some of the comments, but I do realize that I asked for it. I did want the sincerity and I got it. I did get the feedback on how to improve, and that was what I was looking for.

Regards

Gilbert



Regards
Gilbert

I enjoy reading the critiques because observation can be so intuitive. Sometimes it happens that I can take a drawing and fix it, but the challange is to get it into words for someone else.

I love that people here say first what the person has observed on their own, and give them credit for what they've seen. Then an additional observation is givin that the artist hasn't seen yet. People get excited and want to try the new trick. It seems that if an observation is painful, it couldmean it was not shown right. I've seen art teachers be just mean, maybe because of ego. The responces here are so complete and so helpful, it would be hard to imagine anyone taking offence.

Yeah, some people can take offense to about anything. Some people are very thick skinned too. They take the criticism and shake it off, and move on or didn't even hear what was said.

By the way, welcome to the community.

Regards,
Gilbert

I think the problem with going private with constructive critique is that others then don't get to read what's being said, and therefore don't benefit from it.

I see the process of drawing and painting as largely (at least at the basic technical level) being an error/correction cycle - make a mark, assess whether its the right mark (is it too long/short; is it at the correct angle; is its placement correct in relation to the other marks; is it the right value; is it the right colour?) - if it's not, adjust it, and reassess. If it is OK, make another mark and go through the same assessment process.

Thus we need to be able to self-critique.

Being able to constructively critique others helps us critique our own work. Its often easier to spot problems in other people's work than in our own - as they make mistakes we've already worked though ourselves, or make different mistakes. We often have a "blind-spot" for our own mistakes (otherwise we wouldn't keep making them!), so it is helpful (if sometimes a bit humbling) to have them pointed out by others.

Getting involved in constructive critiquing is good experience, as it allows you to "throughput" many more problems to be solved than you would see if you only look at your own work. It also means that you have to clarify your own ideas so as to be able to explain them to others. Also, one begins to see patterns in the mistakes people make, there are particular pitfalls which can be recognised and (perhaps) avoided.


Dave

Critism used to drive me absolutely crazy - mostly because I would hear it from my mom. But then as I got older, I learned to take the good with the bad.. If someone said "Hey, that eye looks funny.." Instead of getting mad, id sit back, look at it , and go from there - does it really look funny? If so, I would correct that part and be grateful someone had the nerve to say something to me instead of ignoring it, and perhaps, leaving that part look bad.

I like your approach! Thanks for the comment.

Accepting criticism is being humble. It also gives us the opportunity to realize someone's point-of view. As the artist dealing with the subject matter, they can accept what the critique has to say and grow from the experience or do nothing. Too much criticism can be noise too. The ultimate critique though is the artist.

I tend to be selective in accepting criticism. If something is really obvious, I’ll accept that and try to work through the issue and make it better. If it is not that obvious, then I have to take a step back and see if this is worth focusing on.