Joanie, practice really is the only way to get a feel for these pencils and how they work for you.

No, I haven't used anything on my cp drawings to blend the colours, only a blending pencil and that really is just for burnishing areas at the end of a drawing. Again, its down to experimenting and finding out what you can do with mediums and what you like.

I use greys in rendering whites sometimes and also in areas that have blue or purple in them too. It so depends on the colour of the subject and the surrounding environment. A lot of people make the mistake of thinking that shadows are grey or black, but in fact they take up the colour of their surroundings and are just a deeper tone. So if you add layers of complementary colours and deeper colours to building your tones.

Bristol Smooth or Vellum Joanie? Smooth doesn't have much tooth and makes it more difficult to work with for CP, and stonehenge definitely has more tooth to it, so you can add more layers to it before the paper becomes saturated with pigment and impossible to work with further.

For flesh tones I start with cream or pale peach, then layer with perhaps jasmine, pink, mineral orange, rosy beige - it all depends on what skin tone you are trying to create. Before I do a drawing I create a little test sheet of colours that my palette will be for a drawing and what colours I will use to create the tones that I want to use. I write the names of the colours down and keep the swatch sheet handy with the drawing so I know what colours I need to keep active.

You'll get there, you have the knowledge and skills. Keep practicing and keep asking questions.

Thanks again, Jeanette. You're a doll. I'm becoming clearer on this subject. Its great when you only have a couple of dumb questions and you need an answer right away that this is the place to find the answers. This is going to help me tremendously. I think I might be contributing to some of my problem by wanting the picture to be finished quickly. I probably need to slow down and gain more control over the pencil.

Wow you guys thanks alot .....is it wrong to work hard on a picture and not want to give the master away .. instead make a copy of it ?
I do hate to part with this .. I think this is by far my best .
This site has helped me so much ... I would have never been able to do the hair the way I did .. or the horse ....I swore a little bit while doing it ...lol I kept saying drawing is suppose to be relaxing lol .

1. No reference pic, I made my cat sit there while I drew him
2. It doesn't compare to your horse (which is amazing by the way and if you can copy & still have it look good, by all means go ahead. No one will ever know )
and 3. It's really darker - scanner is icky

PS - It's a WIP

Coloured pencil is a slow process Joanie, it really is. You can do quick sketchy stuff with it, but if you want realism then you're looking at putting lots of time into a piece. You'll get there, you're moving in the right direction

Kim, I think we all feel like that with drawings that have turned out well. The consolation is that we will always do another that is ever better. I keep a portfolio of my artwork and that is a good enough reminder for me. Of course if you want to make copies or prints, by all means do. Take your original to a good printer or copy centre and have then scan it professionally and make some copies that way. The difference between the original and the print should be neglible if done well.

Sweet cat Staciarain! Sitting still for you? Mine just goes to sleep lol THis will be lovely.

Kim no its not wrong at all. If you have the time and money before Christmas hits you should try to hit Kinko's and see if you can get a copy of it for your ex's girlfriend. Keep the master copy..its georgous!!!

Kim - my vote says keep the original. Its beautiful.

Hello!

Kim, Great horse, you did awsome work!!! I love the little touch of the kiss:) cute!!

staciarain Great job with the fur.. the ears are good too, so many poeple dont really pay attention to them when they draw a cat. Great work!!

Well my husband copied it for me and it turned out very nice .. so i framed it and its getting wrapped today ..will find out how she likes it .
Staci ....nice cat and I give you a whole lot of credit for getting the cat to stay still .. lol

AWESOME work Kim! I am a horse person and I love this pic. Keep stepping outside the comfort zone by all means Kim. Each one is better than the last!

This is my attempt at Painters Grandaughter Holly for the drawing challenge. I am not sure why it looks so washed out in the scan. But I tried playing with the scanners settings and it went from bad to worse LOL> I know the eyes need LOTS of work. I didn't do much of the jacket because Holly has such a dear sweet face I wanted the focus on her face. Then I went and messed it all up LOL. I am happy with the mouth but that's about it. I also forgot to add her ear in the drawing. This is done with a regular number 2 pencil on copier paper.



Ok here is another image from the drawing challenge. Symetry is a killer LOL.

This is cute the eyes look a little dark, or at least the left one does, but it's looking good

Thank you pammy

Hello all

Just want to wish everyone a very happy holiday, and thank all of you for all the help.

John G

Merry Christmas John. I hope your holiday is peaceful and your New Year filled with joy.

Ok, gang....this is ready for delivery...I hope!!! Please, look over this carefully and tell me if you see any areas that could require adjustments...even if you feel you are inexperienced in critique, please take a moment and really let yourself examine this. Try squinting at the screen to blur the image...this can help things jump out at you...I'm seeing a thing or two now that it is on the computer, but if they aren't to obvious I may not mess around with it anymore. Remember the only way we get better at anything...drawing or even critique is by practicing!!!! Let me know what you see and think!!!

Thanks for looking!
Laura

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Love it!!If it were mine I wouldn't dream of touching it with an eraser. But,,if you put a gun to my head and told me to find something or else;,,,,I would like to see more detail done to his ear , her ear rings matched a little closer and the light reflections in her left eye doesn't match the other three.But whom am I to say?

Laura
First I have to say it is like the teacher asking the student to find an error, I wish I could do half as good and I have to say this drawing is outstanding like all your work. But if I had to pick something it would be the nose on the lady, the nostril on my left seems to be too high and off, the only other comment is on the tip of her noise seems off also.

John G

Ted,

"...but who am I to say?"... You are another artist with eyes as good as mine....that's who you are!!! Hehehe...I agree with you regarding the ear and the highlights in the eyes...I will take another look at the earrings as well!!!

John,
I'm still a student and always will be!!! You do have very good eyes! Unfortunately I can't show the reference picture. This was done using a transfer technique for speed and accuracy... so this is actually her nose...I'll double check that nostril...I had a really tough time with the shading trying to balance it out and I may try to play it down a wee bit more!


These are exactly the things that I want to hear when I ask for critique...and if you want to improve in your own work these are the things you should want to hear as well!!! Learning to give and recieve critique is invaluable to any artist.
Well done!
Thank you very much!!!
Laura


P.S. John, ...please don't use the word pick and nose in the same sentence....hehehehehe

You couldn't leave good enough alone,could you. So for catching John G wanting to pick the lady's nose,here your punishment .Look at the man's glasses,kind of off balance. Please, this is all in fun.Don't get me back later.

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This is fabulous Laura! They sit very well on the page, if that makes sense

The shading on the tip of her nose may be what is throwing people a little and as you say if that is how her nose is, well that's how it is.

The left frame of his spectacles seems a little smaller than the right. Its not enough to be distracting but if I specifically look for it, I can see it.

I would think that whoever receives this will be well pleased with it. It is a beautiful double portrait, you should be proud of it.

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey!!!! He said it *snicker*...I couldn't resist!!! hehehehehe

I made a slight adjustment to the ear the glasses the highlight and even the earring...hopefully I'll be able to scan this after a small amount of Rhinoplasty....hehehehe




Jeanette,
This is a transfer and her nose is crooked, but that doesn't mean that I shaded it perfectly...it's easy to make mistakes even with a transfer...a slip of your pencil and you have something slightly off or if you blend one thing you wipe out a line you haven't worked on yet...eeek...yanno what I mean...hehehehe The polkadots and the big hair are part of the reasons I chose to transfer this....I did attempt to freehand this once and I could see the problems starting...to much of a headache and not enough time or advil!!!!

Thanks to you, Ted, John and Miss Jeanette for your "Fresh" eyes and advice I think I had polkadot burn going on...hehehehe...yanno how it is after you stare at black and white polkadots for a bit...if you don't know then try it...you'll see what I mean. I'd really be surprised if you hadn't experienced this before though.
Thanks for all your help!
Laura

I did a drawing of jack sparrow and I thought I would have a go at the man he was based on Keith richards
I justed wanted your opinion on this drawing sometimes you cant see for looking and its better for someone else to have a look,thanks a lot.dave





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David,

This is a wonderful likeness of Keith Richards....I can't say without the reference for sure but you may want to double check his right eye it looks a wee bit off. I didn't know he was the inspiration for Jack Sparrow...hehehe...I can see why though!!! Good Job!

Laura

thanks Laura I think your right about the right eye now I look again, As for keith richards being the inspiration for jack sparrow keith said that johnnie depp kept asking Him out for dinner he said in the end he began to think that he was gay,absolutely hilarious.

Here is my latest drawing. It is a picture of my son Douglas. I took the original picture and made it grayscale, then I posterized it to help me see the shading and I added some lines to help with drawing it. Unfortunately I saved on top of the original picture so I can only show you the doctored picture that I used for reference. I used 4 pencils, 2h, hb, 2b and 4b on medium tooth paper.

So teachers, How did I do?, what should I improve on? and where should I head next?(in my quest for a portrait that looks like the person I am drawing and is Armin like)(oops reaching a little high, don't push me off the ladder)lol!

[attachmentid=1580][attachmentid=1581]
Here are a couple adjustments. I don't think it fixes the looking up thing(re: painter next post) but it fixes his nose and chin. I touched up his mouth but I think I had it better before.
[attachmentid=1594]
Hm-m, I see why I thought his mouth was off. I think his nose and left (veiwer) eye are a little far to the left.

Paulette - thats really good! You're on your way up that ladder - but I don't want to burst your bubble, you've got quite a way to go to reach that Armin level. LOL As do the rest of us at Drawspace. So I guess we had all better practice more. hahahahaha Did you use Brenda's lessons to do this portrait?

I will comment on the drawing though. In the picture it seems like his head is tilted upward. In your drawing it seems as if he is looking at the viewer straight on.

Painter,
He is looking up in the photo. I see what you mean about the drawing looking straight, but I don't see where to change it? Maybe some subtle shading that I am missing? Saying I wanted to make the drawing more real didn't sound quite right and the Armin pictures popped into my head about how I did want it to look. He is amazing I see why Laura talks about him. Anyways any comments would be great. Oh, I kind of followed the new lesson (I think its Clair). Brenda uses the smallest circles or squirkling when she does the pictures. I don't know how she does that. Mine are huge in comparison. Jeanette was talking about a lesson on circulism maybe she will let us in on that.
Paulette

Oops , I decided that his cheek on the left (viewer) side was too angled. So I erased my 4hb pencil and proceeded to make a smudge that won't erase. Is there anything I can do about this? Learning by trial and error can be such a pain.
Paulette

Paulette I have no idea how to help you with that one. I had the same problem with the portrait I was doing of my grandmother. I finished it but I am redoing it as to it doesn't look like I want it too and there are way to many eraser marks on it. I have also came to the conclusion I do NOT like my new scanner I have or my Kodak program that came with my new camera. I was gonna scan the picture and show people what it looked like but will wait til after I redraw it. I will have to use the other computer to scan the new picture because my new one sucks bad!!! I guess that is what I get for buying a cheap printer/scanner combo!!! If you find out please let me know!

Paulette, you've done well with this one so far. Its difficult to emulate the wonderful Armin for sure! I wish I could! Then again he takes about 4 of 5 months to draw a portrait.

There are a few areas that can be adjusted to give you a better likeness.

1. I believe the eyes are too far apart. as a result the mouth is too wide, throwing the features off.
2. The angle of the glasses is a bit off too, please recheck that.
3. The left side of the face from the cheekbone to the slope towards the chin should be straighter.
4. Try increasing the values of the nose. I know its hard in the reference to see the shadows, so you may have to make them up as you go along. The posterization will give you the general idea.

I will share a little bit about circulism here and give you a couple of examples that I did a couple of years ago. Circulism is a method of shading that is very slow, very methodical but very realistic. You need good, paper - I used Bristol smooth or Stonehenge and a mechanical pencil with a minimum of HB and 2B leads. With this method, you will find that you rarely, if ever, need to erase. You will be going very slowly which allows you time to consider what you are doing and the values that you need.

To achieve it, what I do is first place a graphite 'wash' on the paper. This is done by so so soooooooooo lightly stroking the paper in tiny circles, the pencil is barely stroking the surface and leaving a very light line. This gives your base coat. Then I add values by continuing these tiny circular movements with the chisel end of my pencil - I'm talking circles no wider than the lead of the pencil usually. What you want to achieve is a smooth surface of graphite that shows no hard lines and no overlap. Remember, this is a slooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwww method of working. But well worth the effort in terms of realism.

Here are a couple of examples of a portrait I did using circulism showing the build up. Sorry for the poor quality of the scan. I hope you get the general idea.

I'll work on producing something in more depth that perhaps people can join in with.

[attachmentid=1603] [attachmentid=1604] [attachmentid=1605]

Jeanette,
Thank you for looking. I based my drawing style(?) on the new Claire lesson. Brenda uses squirkling to do the shading. Is this anything like circulism? I am thinking its probably a quicker method although her squirkles seem very small indeed. Can you do either of them with a pencil? or do you need the thin mechanical pencil?
I tried to fix the left cheek but when I erased the 4hb pencil in order to widen and straighten it I made a huge smudge that I can't erase out. I ended up putting it back the way it was. I agree on the eyes and glasses, but now am terrified to erase. I will work on the nose a bit more.
I think one of my biggest hurdles is to slow down. After looking at the computer image I had already seen most of what you are talking about. I can't help but think I could have fixed them much earlier in the drawing if I had stopped and looked at it objectively. How do you do this with your work?
Thank you again for looking and I look forward to hearing more about circulism.
Paulette

Squirkling isn't like circulism. Circulism builds shading through layers of graphite applied in tiny slightly overlapping circles, whereas squirkling is random loose circles and loops that sometimes overlap and sometimes don't. Squirkling is quicker indeed and circulism takes a lot of time to do well.

Yes, you can use wood pencils to do this technique too. I'm just lazy and hat to sharpen all the time.

I know its frustrating when a smudge like that occurs and you can't fix it easily. Sometimes, its better to start over again on a fresh sheet of paper and put the first drawing down to experience, knowing where you went wrong and how to fix it.

Having said that, I think you can make your changes and erase if your layers aren't too heavy now and you use a gentle hand to lift them.

Slowing down comes with experience and the level of realism that you want to achieve. With an important piece I take my time with each stage, from the master line drawing to the transfer and building the layers. You need to step back from your drawing every now and then and have another look to make sure its right. When you're right on top of it, its difficult to judge what you are doing.

An average graphite drawing in circulism takes me approximately 25-30 hours to complete.

PS I meant to add in the last post for you to check the length from the bottom lip to the end of the chin - or where the image stops. It seems too short in your drawing.

Thank You for your answer Jeanette. I think your right about the distance to the chin. I missed that one. I drew this freehand, using the lines to help me see. I like this picture enough that I will have to try it again. Last night I drew a page of six different celebrities. I figure if I could draw them and make them look recognizable, that I would have an easier time reproducing a photo I have in front of me. I have a long way to go. I can see a little of who they are but I don't think anyone else will. Maybe that would be a good thread to start. "guess the celebrity" We could all get experience drawing free hand and have a little fun at the same time. I bet we would be amazed at the improvement.
Paulette

Portraits are hard. You're doing great, Paulette. As you can tell by my gallery, I love doing faces best but I am just a beginner. Most are out of proportion or their eyes are crossed or something. I love doing celebrities. That would make a great thread.. I was really surprised when someone recognized one of mine.

Jeanette,
What do you think can we start a new thread? I'm mostly interested in doing quick sketches, rather than doing full studies. I'm sure it could be open for both and everybody would have a chance to improve. Here are my pictures from last night. I spent maybe 5-10 min. on each. They are very rough but I can see a little of the person in them (except the girl at the top, I know who I did and can't even tell who it is). I am going to keep at this until other people can tell who I am drawing. I seem to be interested in doing portraits out of all the stuff we have done in the last two months on drawspace, so I guess I better get good at them.
Paulette
[attachmentid=1618]

We can start a thread for that. My concern is with the use of reference images regarding public figures and the copyright issues that surround them. People can just post the drawings, not the references and get away with it likely.

I am looking at setting up an interactive portrait class that may be useful for some, so bear with me for a bit. I'll add more tonight.

I think they are rather good. Especially for quick sketches. Is that Jonny Depp and Orlando Bloom on the bottom right? Sorry if I got it wrong but they still look fine to me. I wish I could sketch but I am rather compulsive and the next thing you know I get lost in detail.

Jeanette!!! That sounds like a wonderful idea. I know I have been told that portraits are easy but let me tell you..I am having the hardest time. With my online art class I am taking I have basically whipped through everything...The only two I found I have had a problem with is perspective (drawing buildings) and portraits. I can get a good likeness but thats it. So if you get a interactive portrait class going that would be awesome!!! Because I will soooooooooo be there!!!

Cyn,
Thank you, your right, Depp and Bloom. I actually enjoy sketching quite a bit. I love when someone good at it can use just a couple of lines and you start to see what they are doing.
Jeanette,
I haven't really checked out the rules on copy right. This is the first time I've used anything other than what I own or drawspace material. You and the admin. would have to be judges of that. The portrait class sounds great.
Paulette
P.S. Anyone heard from Kim? I hope her husband isn't sick again.

Here's my first drawing of the new year. I did it at about 1 am New Years day.
I was home with the kids, (they were asleep) and everyone else was out partying.

What do y'all think?



click the thumbnail to go to my gallery entry

Jeanette
If you do start a interactive portrait class please count me in. That is what I have been looking for.

Thank you

John G

I'm unpinning this thread and starting a new Critique thread as this one is getting a little long and cumbersome to search through. It will still be available. The new Critique thread will be called Critique Thread 2 (how inventive, I know )

John, see the new pinned Portrait 101 class and sharpen your pencils...