Just rushed work on the carpet wish i know how to improve it.Thanks, Kay.

I am sure that was a rhetorical question but I will answer it for you

Slow down and stop rushing. Rome wasn't built in an day .. pictures don't need to be drawn in a hurry.
As to how to make this better:
Stand it up on a table or dresser at close to eye level in a bright room. Step back about 8 feet, close your eye for about 1 minute, count to 60 slowly.. I know you are in a hurry ;-)
Now open your eye and note to where you eyes are drawn first.

For me they go right to the scratch line in the background to the left of the subject.
To me the picture looks unfinished and rushed because of this. Take a little time to smooth out the background into a more subtle gradient. The area where the subject meets the background is particularly important since the real object would not have a Dark line around it's contour.

Over all you did a wonderful job and I to think you should frame this and hang it on the wall or possible sell it!

Just spend a bit more time touching it up and giving it the finished look that it deserves.

thanks for the advice, airscapes. i wish i knew better. I just sprayed it with fixative last night before going to bed.Next time i will be more patient in all respects.

Actual it is not to late.
You can can still add more charcoal after you spray, it is just really hard to erase.. you should try a test.. put some charcoal down on another piece of paper and spray.. let it dry and then add more charcoal to see how it works once sprayed.

I have never liked working in charcoal - mostly because the results are terrible! I used it at a life drawing class - I think one of my cats could have done a better job. My lines are always too thick, the inevitable smudges, it just doesn't "do right" for me. I'm following this thread with interest, getting some good pointers, and may jump back in with an attempt using charcoal. Thanks Elena for starting the thread and all those who have contributed! You all should do a Top 10 List for beginners in charcoal.

Yepper .. I hated the stuff when I had to use it in a class.. big giant paper, black stuff all over me.. but if you treat it like paint and apply it and remove it carefully and use a few tools, it is amazing what you can do..
Of course it can be used many different ways!
I should have my current drawing ready to post in the next few days .. time allowing

Sandra, the first time I used charcoal was back in my country, Romania, in school, age 12-14, I remember the sticks covering my hands in dust and all ther mess.Last year I showed my doctor my sketches in graphite and he suggested charcoal for a change. I was still under the impression of my childhood experience.
But it was so inspiring to see Kay's works in charcoal in the gallery that instantly i decided to give it a try.
Last week I spent $40 in charcoal supplies, and i am well equiped now for more works.It gives me full satisfaction working with this medium and i have no words of praise for the beauty of charcoal art.
So get over your first impressions and just do some work. You can start like me with pencils that are less messy.
Note that in the urn artpiece case I covered the page with charcoal using a stick of medium strength and from there I started removing the charcoal with different tools, stump, cloth, kneaded eraser It was a great exercise in composing my drawing. I sat on the floor(carpet) and just played with all the effects like a child.
Believe it or not is very important to establish a love relationship with your medium.Think of it as of discovering its possibilities.
Chose a subject rich in values so you can really bring up the true nature of charcoal, its versatility in rendering light and shadow, chiaroscuro.

Charcoal is a very beautiful way in creating a new piece. I've yet to try it, however I've been meaning to do it but I have a few questions.

What is the best charcoal to use out there?

What is the best paper to use?

What is the best eraser for charcoal?

1.best charcoal:
should be dark on paper not reddish or brown. The General's brand is good. Also imported charcoal from France that comes in compressed sticks.

2.best paper: charcoal paper, newsprint, canvas.

3.best eraser: kneaded eraser; you can lift up the charcoal also with chamois, textile cloth, cosmetic cotton balls, etc.

You also have to try all the ways in which you work most comfortably with the medium.
Results are not dictated necesarily by the quality of your supplies but mostly by your ability of drawing and practice with the medium.

Okay... one thing with me, I make sure I get good stuff when I draw... I am not cheap at all. LOL



Can you add pencils to the charcoal piece?

Yes, you can draw a piece in both graphite and charcoal. But in this case you use first and most graphite and add charcoal only here and there. I don't think you can cover the paper in charcoal dust or coating and then work in graphite.So basically you have a drawing which is mostly graphite on white paper and reinforced with charcoal.

I've done that and for me, the graphite and charcoal I found don't really mix well... so that's why I was under the impression if you do a charcoal piece it has to be all charcoal, if you do a graphite piece it has to be all graphite.

Thanks for the tips and info!!!!

Elena thanks for the tips and the inspiration! I think I'll drop into Michaels on the way home tonight and get a couple of charcoal pencils. This could be just the thing to nudge me out of the dry spell I'm in - it's been literally weeks since I've wanted to draw anything. How do other people deal with this? It may make for a good forum topic. I'll try something this evening if time and cats permit and post it for everyone tomorrow. No laughing please!

You discuss art with your doctor? That is so cool! My doctor only tells me that I'm too fat and overdue for a mammogram.

Seriously - I do envy you so much with the early training you had in Romania to guide the obvious gift that you have in art! How I would love to have the same experience - and ability to add the love of the work. I'm going to scoot over to the gallery and check out Kay's work too. Thanks!

Sue, Sandra, you are very welcome.

Ok gang! Got some time today to work on this and I am at the point where I am tweaking and twiddling and I fear making things worse. I would like some input as to where I have major flaws if any. Sometimes fresh eye can see new things. I will also post over in portrait thread so sorry if you see it cross posted.

I don't think I captured the moment as the photo did but this is my first drawing of the year.. also the paper was a little to toothy and she looks like she needs a Shave!!

Anyhow, this about 8x12 on High end printmakers paper, vine and willow and just a wee bit of pence type charcoal.

Reference photo A very young Joan Collins
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From afar
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upclose cropped (a little over exposed)
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How gorgeous! You've captured her expression so well. The only thing that looks off to me is the hair where it parts, it looks a bit confused in your drawing, but MAN that must be difficult to get perfect.
Don't take my opinion too seriously, I'm still a beginner, nowhere near the skill you have!

very beautiful work airscapes

Great portrait, airscapes.Do you start from a covered in charcoal surface towards removing the charcoal?

No Elena, I start with very light line drawing of the dark areas (reference lines ) then start top left working to my right top to bottom. Applying medium just like I would paint..

Here is a photo I took along the way to try and figure out what was wrong with the area I was working.. you can see the lines of the areas I have not done yet
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OK. I thought so. I am curious how is to work on a portrait by lifting off the charcoal.I must try this.

So as i wondered what if I try this, I just did.I covered a page in charcoal then lifted the charcoal with kneaded eraser, added, smothed, etc. Here is a portrait in one hour just to have a feel of the actual process. i chose this one since it has chiaroscuro.

After seeing the portraits from Elena and airscapes, I'm embarrassed to put my little line drawing up, but this is my first effort in charcoal and I think it's a medium that will challenge and please me at the same time. I did notice that the pencils I bought - which by the way were very cheesy - didn't hold their point for a long time. Is there a trick to keeping them sharp? I tried a traditional pencil sharpener, the "lead" kept breaking. I went out to Bill's shop in search of a carpenter's pencil sharpener, and happened upon my neighbor Mr. Eddie. I told him the problem and he said "here just use my Alabama toothpick" and brought out a huge pocketknife! We tried, but the results were even worse, I had to toss that pencil and just operate with the two remaining.

I also noticed that, once you put down a line, you live with it. Maybe I'm putting down too dark of a line at the beginning. I will try the lifting techniques that you are all doing - wonderful! Things I like about charcoal so far - the intense lines and the ability to do very subtle shading (Q-tips work great, thanks Elena!). Things I don't like - the line thickness - that could be the cheap pencils again. This will take some practice.
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Well.. there are may ways to use this stuff.. As I said earlier, I use it like paint so not to many sharp lines. The Vine and Willow charcoal is not a pencil, it's vines and willow twigs that have been made into charcoal by cooking at high temperature with no oxygen.
I sharpen with a pencil sharpener and make my line. The point is gone in about 2 inches of travel. I don't find the need to use a sharp point all that much really. You don't always need the blackest black so put down some charcoal and move it around with a sharp stump or a Qutip stick (swab cut off on a nice sharp angle)
Oh on living with lines.. the pencil type has Compressed charcoal in it.. that stuff don't come off.. willow and vine will erase to the white of the paper but will also blow away..

Sandra, you created a very gentle and sweet drawing. Now with the broken tips of the pencils you can add some dust to the background and blend it with a q-tip.Also you can do the following. Cover a new page with the dust from the broken pencils and then work your flower bud by lifting up the charcoal. You will find how fun and rewarding it is to shape up your subject by erasing.
To sharpen a pencil or vine, wilow charcoal what you need is sandpaper.The dust you can use for a background effect.
You actually don't draw black charcoal on white paper, but start from the charcoal covered surface towards the removal and modeling of your subject.Don't worry. You are doing fine. I started by using black on white too.

Thought I would revive this thread one more time..
I just decided to call my drawing done and give it a very light mist of fixative. This will change your over all shades making the charcoal lighter. This is because it locks all those tiny chips of dust together and alters the way the light reflects.
I find once sprayed, if I go back over the very darkest ares, very carefully, I can bring back the punch of the darkest darks and make it really pop! I am not sure if the picture shows it but it is visible in person. Rather than all the hair being the same black ..there are now two darks, one where it is pitch black and out at the ends where is it just slightly lighter.
NO more fixative is sprayed, the piece should be put under glass at this point and not bounce around to much.
The charcoal applied over the fixative has better holding power than what was on the paper only. It can still be rubbed of so be careful.

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airscapes - that is beautiful! You did a fabulous job!

Here I have a drawing of a Chinese girl I did in charcoals. Here it is the contrast image I worked from
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covering the page with charcoal medium
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then removing it with a kneaded eraser
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and here is the final drawing
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1 hour and 20 minutes.

Hi Elena,

I have been following this forum and I would like to continue seeing post, as I find them really interesting.
So ... this forum motivated me to take again my charcoals, and I did again a motive that I have drawn in the present ATC trade. So I went from 2,5" x 3,5" to 18" x 24", from a dwarf to a giant done in 5 mm willow sticks.
Charcoal is such an incredible medium!!
Regards to all of you.
Claudio

Incredible work, Claudio. Congratulations! Very good.
Indeed i like to draw on large size pads.Right now I'm having problems with greeting card size painting.
I see so many participants in ATC but one thing should be said about that size drawing. ATC drawing doesn't develop your skills. In any class or art school drawing and sketching are done on 18x24 in pads. This being the size where you can display values and shading best.

Thanks again for posting in this thread.

Thank you very much, Elena.
ATCs are indeed funny but I agree with you. In bigger formats you can work values and shades much more than in a small card. However, some media is quite related to the size: I don't imagine using charcoal in a card (or nothing smaller than 11x14), or using graphite in formats bigger than 14x17. What do you think?
Claudio

Maybe I don't understand you because of language differences, but you just said "Drawing small does not build your skill". Then you say you are having trouble working small? So obviously this is something that takes skill and you have not developed that skill! The reason they teach you on big paper is BECAUSE IT IS EASIER TO DARW BIG! I am about to give up on a small painting I am doing because it is to difficult to get correct even with a magnifying glass. This would have been a lot easier if it was a little bigger! I agree you can show more value on something large but to display that same gradient in a small scale take much more skill, control and visual acuteness. Now back to my light switch cover painting for a third try on eyes nose and mouth..

airscapes, I don't know what you imply about my English. It is common knowledge that art is not taught on ATc size for beginners. You learn drawing and sketching involving your arm muscles especially in studio art classes.I see many people on many websites with basic skills(i.e drawing like a 7-9 year old) who rather draw ATC than large scale sketches and drawings.And they will not be able to progress this way when it is asked of them to draw regular size subjects.
I am a beginner and i want to dominate the pencils/tools before i choose to draw miniature flowers or animals.Is as simple as that.If i am not sure about about the anatomy of a rabbit on a 9x12 in. pad how can I stylize it to a 2x3 in. card?

Maybe the issue is your assumption that everyone involved is a beginner? Your said the following

"I see so many participants in ATC but one thing should be said about that size drawing. ATC drawing doesn't develop your skills. In any class or art school drawing and sketching are done on 18x24 in pads."

Noting about beginners.. just a blanket statement that drawing small is bad, that is what bothers me.. and with that said.. I will go eat my dinner..
Have a great weekend.

Hi I'm fairly new to charcoal and i was wondering if anyone had any tips as far as creating value with charcoal(I'm kinda having a hard time with it)?
I'm using vine charcoal, a 2h, 2b, and 4b charcoal pencil.

You need some charcoal paper or some very course paper to hold the charcoal or it just will fall off. apply the charcoal gently and work it in with a stump or qtip if you are looking for a light shade. If it gets to dark remove it with a kneeded eraser or soft microfiber cloth. I don't use charcoal like most folks do, I kind of paint with it keeping my drawing very clean and clear. Just play around with it till you find what works for you.
Oh forgot to mention that the pencil type of charcoal will leave marks that don't come off, I don't use that stuff much since it is so very unforgiving.

I know, I try to be very careful with the charcoal pencil, I usually don't use it till the end

What I've been doing lately is looking at other people's work to kinda get some inspiration as to how to work with it as well.

first time trying charcoal, and only have a cheap stick to play with.

Hello Elena!

I have recently bought a cheap charcoal pencil and I tried it yesterday to shade a drawing. However, I think I may be missing something here... It is the first time I try to use this medium and I did not like the feeling. It was so hard that sometimes I was afraid it would damage the paper!! Plus, the shading does not have a smooth look. I tried to blend it with a cotton, but I was not sucessful...

Can someone give me some help/tips, please?

Thanks!!

Sonia.

There are 2 kinds of charcoal. Natural (not sure that is a term used) and compressed. What I am calling Natural is Willow and Vine charcoal. These are made of what they are called.. Willow twigs and Vines. The pieces of plant are cooked at very high heat with no oxygen. These products are VERY soft and fragile and require coarse paper like pastels so the medium does not just fall/blow away.
The Compressed charcoal is made of who knows what kind of wood that is cooked at high temps with no oxygen and then is compressed under great pressure into Chunks or put into wood to look like pencils. This type of charcoal is very hard and once the paper is marked with it, there is no getting that mark off. I use these pencil very sparingly for dark details, such as the eye lashes, a stray strand of hair, or the lines around the eye that are dark and sharp.

I am no expert on this subject matter, I took a drawing class and they introduced us to charcoal and I hated it A year later I tried it again, and this time just played with it being careful and neat using different tools and found that I liked it.

Here are some other threads on this subject..
http://www.drawspace.com/forums/index.php?...amp;hl=Charcoal
http://www.drawspace.com/forums/index.php?...amp;hl=Charcoal
http://www.drawspace.com/forums/index.php?...amp;hl=Charcoal
http://www.drawspace.com/forums/index.php?...amp;hl=Charcoal
http://www.drawspace.com/forums/index.php?...amp;hl=Charcoal

Airscapes, thank you so much for your time and for all the valuable information you gave me!
In fact, I was wondering how it was possible to create such wonderful drawings with charcoal, as the ones I already saw from Drawspace members (you included)... I understand that it is a "love it or hate it" experience! Well, I think I must go shopping again... I will give it a second chance!
Thank you so much also for the links!

Warmest regards,
Sonia.

Hi, Jeff.You obtained nice effects of the cast shadows and a good first attempt. Now you need to get bold and try(buy more supplies) some rich tone shapes like bowls, vases, any still life that can engage your skills in rendering light and shadow.
Here is a lesson from Brenda. Coming out of the dark you may wish to check out.

Sonia, I had a similar reaction to charcoal when I first tried it in school, many decades ago. Then I started with a fresh approach and did my fist drawing applying it like graphite. Still couldn't figure it out. Only when I worked with it from the dark charcoal covered page towards shapes and light and shadow i began loving it. So give yourself some time. And don't expect to have something like a graphite drawing looking like. This is another medium. It looks different, it feels different and to me it's the ideal medium to teach you shape and volume, values and tonal beauty.
I wil give you too the link to the charcoal lesson by Brenda to get an idea.
Coming out of the dark.Good luck!

Thank you so much, Elena! It seems that the first contact with charcoal is not great to anyone!
Your experience gives me the willing to try again...
Thank you for showing me Brenda´s lesson. I had not seen it yet, because I am still doing the "F" group lessons!...

Best regards,
Sonia.

Sonia,
I am also starting in charcoal myself, and I am generally happy with the results. I use 5mm willow charcoal, which is very soft and easy to smudge. I tried a chacoal pencil at the art store and I found it extremely hard and difficult to smudge.
I have done four or five drawings so far and I find the medium very nice, although I still find it difficult to draw proportionated bodies. Here is an example; in the drawing board it looked good, but when I took the photo and rotated it I realized the body is too thin. I'm sure it's the camera that deformed it
Claudio

Claudio, I know it may seem like cheating or something.. but try using a pencil to draw out your reference lines and then work with the charcoal. If you use very light lines with the pencil it will not be seen under the charcoal and you end up with a better finished product.

its not too thin, look at paris hilton..she turns sideways and disappears

Thank you for the advice, Doug. I usually do that. However, I am starting to draw the human figure, and sometimes I don't draw the right proportions
Claudio

I guess I miss understood the issue.. thought you meant you were having trouble getting the proportions correct with charcoal.. not thinking you meant just in drawing the human form.

BTW, I don't think you have anything wrong with her figure!

Claudio, thank you so much for the advice! My problem was that I thought it would be easier to start with the charcoal pencil... but I guess it was the wrong choice! I almost damaged my drawing trying to shade with it!
I think your drawing is very good! And I agree with Kay...

Regards,
Sonia.

Claudio, I agree with everyone else. The figure is great. It's hard working with charcoal at first. I have done 3 so far. 2 are in my gallery. The dragon and the guy in sanguine chalk. I am new to charcoal AND chalk. It is pretty messy but I love it. Until now everything has been pencil.

This is the first thing I did in charcoal a couple of weeks ago and like airscapes said, I should have used a light pencil line first. It took about 30 minutes with one piece of charcoal and and eraser. Not good but I had to start somewhere.