how does one report..art that seems to be offensive..?
thanks,

hi there, find kim, ernest, or bobby burcham, paulette, either of these guys can help you..

regards
Kay

thank you Kay for your answer..I will
Cathy

Why don't you PM the artist first. Give him or her a chance to defend their work before you go to the site administrators?

thank you for your advice

The admins will contact the artist before taking any action. The poor members shouldn't have to take on this responsibility themselves; often times I'm sure they'd rather remain anonymous.

Katy, all the images in the gallery and every post in the forum has a button on it that looks like this:



Push that button, and it will send a PM to the folks named above with a link to the problem. Very easy!

I suggest that you first identify your complaint clearly and thoroughy. As in in offensive art you may ask, "Exactly what is it that offends me about this work of art?" Then you can begin steps to solve the issue. I agree, that if the work is only questionalble and not extremely offensive it would be best to discuss your complaint with the artist who posted the work and then work from there to the administrators if you do not get satisfaction. Even though this may not bring a solution you will at least have tried. If you can't get a satisfactory solution then us moderators are here to resolve these types of issues.

Bobby

Awhile back an administrator removed some of my art and I was NEVER notified! I just went to my album one day and it was gone. No one ever gave me a chance to defend it before pulling it. It happened a long time ago but I'm still ****** off about that.

As for the members who complain preffering to remain anonymous, I'm sorry but not giving an artist a chance to defend their work on the grounds that the accuser wants to remain anonymous is just wrong. If a member dosen't want to take the heat than they shouldn't be policing other members.

I am sure I am not the one who deleted your art but I can offer a possible reason. (and I'm sure some of the moderators feel the same), if I see a work of art that is definitely extreme and should not be seen by children then I will delete it imediately with out taking time to contact the artist who posted it. This is because sometimes artists will post work and then not answer Personal Messages for days or never. So I would say it depends on the subject matter in the work and whether a moderator thinks the decision is urgent.

I also hope none of us moderators feel obigated to delete a picture simply because someone complained and hit the "report" button.

Bobby

I delete art and I have no problem saying so ...this is not a site for peoples perverted art either of dead babies or sexually explicit images ....I do not feel it is the member job to cause conflick with the artist ...as Ernest has said REPORT IT .....I do not take the time to ask ...what were you feeling when you drew that or how does it make me feel ...I send a PM telling them the art is not exceptable depending on what it was give a brief reason ...I have had one memebr continue to upload and put the image back in the gallery ..I have requested they be removed from drawspace .

I agree with your outlook and actions.

As much as I am not an artist, I do have reservations on artists being risque in uploading dubious 'art'.

1. what are they trying to prove?
2. why do they think that theirs is the right to intrude on other persons' tastes of proper decorum?

At the art shows I attend here in TO, I often approch the artists and ask them why they have to put on display
in their tents, nude art works they themselves have done. The general answer is that people like them!
Well here on this refined web site, I would rather have them uploaded to a separate part of the gallery with pin
codes for members who would want to see them.

Sometimes I subscribe to the belief that art is in the eyes of the beholder, but when I see perverted or explicit
depictions, I doubt that such art rests in the eyes of the beholder. More like mischief afoot !

Well said and I like the pin code thing .. of course i myself have no computer skills to even know how or if it can be done .. but i think Ernest may ...sooo Ernest could that be done ?

That's the thing. I didn't recieve a PM it was just gone. I didn't know if it was simply a glitch in the software on this site which happens from time to time. I'm sorry but when people conspire to remove my art without so much as notifying me, I tend to take it personally. To this day I still don't see what was so obscene about the piece I did that it needed to be reported and removed which is why I would have liked to explain my side concerning the drawing.

Nothing can be more aggravating than sending soneone a PM and not getting a response. If you PM an artist about work you find questionable and they don't bother to take the time to reply, I would simply cancel their account.

Rsine ... I always PM but still remove the art ...if I had done it I would have PMed you so you knew what was going on .. for anyone to go around deleting and not giving a reason makes no sense to me ..how would the person know that it was seen as offensive. I do not recall your art ever being a problem and maybe it was a glich ...all I can say is try uploading it and I am sure if it is you will find out .

I think its pretty clear to most that nudity is one thing ... what I am talking about is another .

cancelling account on just a simple non return of a PM is just unexceptable ..people are busy and do not set here day after day .

Unfortunately, you're opening a can of worms because what you feel as dubious art may not be to someone else like the nude art you apparently felt were offensive. I and a lot of other people here post nudes. Are those pieces "dubious"?
Usually when I come across art I think is offensive or in really poor taste, I just move on. I don't feel it's my right to dictate what's obscene and what isn't.

Rsine i think that was back when that guy mark was around..he seemed to like to just willy nilly delete artist art without asking. He did it to me too.but he is no longer here..

Well it happened.

well I think I explained it just fine and you are right it is not your job to dictate what's obscene and what isn't....thats why we are Moderators we do not or shouldnt delete art just because we personaly find it offensive .

OJ I can not understand what on earth was deleted from your art ....I have never seen anything that was close to even being concidered .

Please rsine post the image that was deleted here and lets take a good look and see why it was deleted .
OJ you may as well

Risen and anyone else who has had stuff removed, think about this:
First off let me start by saying I am not a moderator or associated in any other way to this site other that a normal old member just like you. Actually a better description would be Guest!

The access to training and online digital storage here at drawspace is FREE, that is FREE, as in it doesn't cost the member anything! It does however cost Brenda money, and it is actually a fairly large amount of money each and every month for software support, hardware and access fees. Now all us Member upload our art work on this server and act like it is OUR own personal website. Guess what, we are all guests and if the owner of the site or any of her agents feel what we put on the site is offensive, then they have every right to delete it, and or ban us an never tell us why. We are GUEST, that is NON PAYING LEACHES sucking up disk space like there is no tomorrow because it is FREE!

If you are concerned about having your stuff removed, and not having full creative rights, why not create your own website? Most IPSs give you some amount of space, build a website and then add your URL to your posts in the forum and you can put anything you want on your own website!

Just doesn't make sense to me being upset about the rules of a FREE website like this.

Beautifuly said < bowing>

I am sorry for causing a problem with my question..it was an honest question..and one that had merit and a reaon behind it. I did not single out the artist..nor complain publicly..nor will I..I just asked and got an answer..and for that..thank you for the help Kay, Kim, rsine, Ernest and Bobby and anyone else I missed..will I ask again about another question on an open forum..probably not
Cathy

Cathy you caused no problem! And please o please don't feel like you can not post questions on the forum! There is much to be learned from the folks that post on this forum and being silent will help no one! Your question was a good one, unfortunately censorship can be a touchy subject to those who have been censored. Please don't feel this was your fault or that you asked something inappropriate, because you did not. In a discussion forum like this, there will always be disagreements, but truthfully as forums go, this one has to be about the best and most friendly that I participate in. Please don't be disheartened by a little healthy disagreement!

Seriously, Cathy, it's all good!

Cathy I thank you for bringing it to the open forum ...we can not fix something unless it comes to our attention .. the art you are referring to has been deleted three times ....and we are working on that as well .. so really like Ernest said all is good ..oh wait no he didnt he said "it's all good !" <whispering> he is probably a old hippie lol jking

Ok. I'm going to be really honest here and say how sick and tired I am of people throwing the "this site is free so the administrators don't have to give members explanations for their actions" attitude. And I think you owe everyone her an apology with your "NON PAYING LEACHES" comment! If it weren't for us "NON PAYING LEACHES" posting in the galleries, participating in the threads including the challanges and in general keeping this site one of the most active on the internet, there wouldn't even be a drawspace!

Just because there are free members does not mean they don't deserve the same respect by the administrators that the premium members do and to delete someone's work without notification lacks any respect. It's not that my art was taken down that angers me, it's the fact that I was never informed and it just felt like people going behind my back.

Here's the drawing. Yes it's two women in a passionate embrace and yes they're nude but if you notice, you don't really see anything. No genitalia shots, not even a nipple. I think what some people were uncomfortable with was the fact that it was two women because I posted a drawing depicting a man and woman nude in a passionate embrace and it was never removed.

First I think the comment NON PAYING LEACHES was not meant to be a insult yet I can see how it could be taken that way ....you cant demand anyone do anything unless you have a gun pointed at them and being this is the internet hun thats not possible ....I myself did not take it like that but you did and possible you two can resolve the issue.

Rsine is very right about the members paying or non paying they are everything here without them where would drawspace be .

The Administrators of Drawspace do care a great deal we do not and I know I say this for all of them when I say we do not pick on one person because they are a guest or non-paying member . Brenda would not offer free lessons and put so much time into this site if her love of teaching was based on money she is above and beyond generous.

deleting work is done memeber or non member if you post a image that is inappropriate period ....I think you have been angered by a comment and you are taking it out on admin also ...and we all work really hard here to keep things safe and clean and friendly .

Now for your image ..myself I see nothing about it that would be offensive ..as you stated the girls and nude yet not showing anything at all...just embracing so I know myself I do not recall this drawing nor would I have deleted it if I saw it today in the gallery ....we are not here to place personal judgment on each drawing ...only to keep out anything that does not meet the standards given to us appond taking the position of a moderator .

I would like to add just for a FYI to all .. looking at the drawing Rsine has been kind enough to offer up as example ....this drawing is a fine exceptable drawing of two women embracing nude......this same drawing would not be exceptable if the womens hands were in areas that would strongly suggest sexual activity .....that is how I decide on if it is deleted or not .. and Rsine has shown tastful mood for these two ladies .

does this help at all or am I just long winded ? lol

Kim, you are correct, this was not directed at any single person and in fact included myself.
"We are GUEST, that is NON PAYING LEACHES sucking up disk space like there is no tomorrow because it is FREE! "

I don't think I need to apologize for stating a true fact, it is human nature to take as much of something that is free as one possible can without thinking about where the free whatever came from or how it was paid for.

Risen, I am no different than you, I come here and read the post and ask questions and try and answer question and when I have a finished drawing I post it. We are all leaches, we take what ever we can get for free! Hopefully, we try and give back to others passing on what we have learned.

If you still have issues with my statement and would like to continue this discussion with me, you cam email me at airscapes@rcn.com or IM me AIM screen name hairballexpress

Have a great day everyone!

Hairballexpress lol I like that

Wife is down to only 10 cats now.. the express is slowing down!

Cathy, if you are still reading this thread - no don't ever be afraid to post a question - the discussion is half the fun! And don't think you've stirred up a firestorm, this particular conversation has happened before.

airscapes, I love when you come into a discussion, you are like the north wind! I too love the hairballexpress, I think I found one on my kitchen floor this morning.

My two cents worth:

When an individual voluntarily joins a group-whether it's Drawspace, the ACLU, the Boy Scouts, or the Republican Party, it is because he or she sees other individuals who seem to share the same likes, goals, values and standards and the individual want to become a part of that. By voluntarily joining the group, the implicit agreement is that the individual will comply with the rules and standards already set in place. It is not helpful to voluntarily join a group, then decide that the rules and standards are not to the individual's liking and try to change them. Why join if you don't agree with the standards at the beginning? Please note the numerous uses of "voluntarily", kim is correct in that no one is forced to join this group - it's done because the individual wants to be a part.

There are many different cultures, and value standards on this website. What is offensive to some would not bother others. Nudity is a subject that keeps coming up, so let's use it as an example. I personally was raised in a very conservative environment - however, I had six sisters and worked in an OB/GYN clinic for several years. I've seen more twinkies than most people will see in a lifetime, and news flash - THEY ALL LOOK THE SAME!!!!! But, other people who are not desensitized or are from a culture that is very conservative, may see nudity as offensive. That's part of the adjustment we make as being members of a group, accepting that there are differences and adjusting to those differences - or finding another group that has values closer to ours.

The moderators are here to keep the values and standards in place that were decided upon long before many of us decided to join this group. I think they go a great job and if individually someone disagrees with their decisions, they are typically open to discuss the issue.

One more thing, then I've got to go actually do some work today - when an artist works on the edge, it's because somewhere there is a line drawn. Hence the term "edge". If you don't want to be censored, draw puppies, flowers or little kids with big sad eyes. Being bold and independent entails a certain amount of risk, one of those being that someone won't like your art. That's part of life and working outside the comfort zone.

Just an old grouch's opinion - y'all have a nice day!

Thank you so much " old grouch " your opinion is welcomed

I also have three cats ...cowboy ...sissy..and grey kitty....why greykitty cause she is all grey and we started by saying ..we want the grey kitty lol

Ha! Love it - we had one we called SoftCat because she was - soft! (and a cat). They seem to name themselves!

that they do .. because my cat name cow boy was because well when he was born he was the biggest of all kittens and got the first dibbs on milk supply .....so I said ...your a cow ....then a couple of days later I seen he was laying very still and I picked him up .. he was limp ...life-less in my hand...I said to my husband he is dead ! I shook him and he would not move ....then all of a sudden he yawned and open his tiny little eyes ....he was sleeping ...too much rich milk maybe .. I fell in love and named him cow for his consumption of all the milk and boy cause he is a male cat Fixed !

he weights about 18-20 pounds but is not like over weight he is big ..paws and all ....my other cat sissy ..well same litter and was his sister he cuddled with so we kepted her as well .

Now for my pit bull .....lol its fun here at my house ..lots of animal love .

Yow! Cowboy is a large kitty - I think my biggest one, Odo, topped out at 17 pounds. Same thing - not fat, just a big cat. His two sisters, Pixie and Dixie were regular size. You have a pit bull too? We have a lab mix, her best friend was a pit bull - got along wonderfully with the cats. Pits have a terrible reputation here, but Soxie was a very gentle dog. Your home sounds like mine, the four-legged residents outnumber the two-legged!

All I was suggesting is that if you take down someone's art from their gallery, than at least pm them and let them know why. I simply stated that someone had removed some art of mine one time and never notified me as to why and it upset me. It's pretty simple suggestion and yet I'm being ripped apart. This is why I don't like taking part in the forums. When I do post it's a rarity for me.

ncgirl wrote... "If you don't want to be censored, draw puppies, flowers or little kids with big sad eyes."

Again people aren't reading my post. I said that I was angry because it was removed and I was never notified as to why.


Airescapes. My handle is rsine not Risen. When you address me please get it right.

Anyway I'm done with thread and am heading back to lurkdom.

Sorry man, I am a bit dyslexic..

lol ......so anyways ....yes I have a pit bull and I love him he is soo gentle and sweet ..we do not have him drag the car with a chain lol he probably could but we dont care about that side ....he is a wonderful part of our family ....is name is paulie lol from the movie goodfellas because everyone at the weddings name was ..." this is paulie my brother paulie son and his uncle paulie" and so on .
labs are wonderful dogs as well .....click the link on my post its about dogs and the bad rap pit bulls get .

Love the name - we named ours Sallie, we had had her for three weeks and couldn't come up with a name, so I named her after one of the OTs I work with. She just happened to be walking by while I was looking over the list of potential names for the dog. Sallie the dog has become a real good friend and if I was offered a million dollars for her, they would have to keep their money. She was the dumbest dog when she was a pup, but after Bill's accident, she's calmed down and stays with him all the time. She still spends quality time with me though - last night we kicked back on the day bed with a bag of chips and watched a show about how to build a still and make moonshine. I took notes, since most of the experts say us late Boomers will have to learn a new job skill by the time we're 50. I'll take a look at your post about dogs in just a few - I see a problem brewing a few frames up, need to take care of it.

rsine - who is ripping you apart?? I thought this was a discussion about censorship and the reasons it happens. I did not point my comments at anyone in particular, and personal attacks are not my style. If you want to take it as being about you - I can't help that - it is your perception, NOT the reality. If I were to point it at your specific issue (removal of your work without an explanation) I probably would have said that - in my opinion - the moderators really don't owe anyone an explanation for removing a work, if they choose to give you one, it's a courtesy.

Forums such as this are a chance to exchange ideas and debate. Debates lead to disagreements which lead to growth and expansion in thinking - it's inevitable that, at some point in your life someone will disagree with your or criticize you. I don't know you personally, what kind of life you have lived or how old you are, but I would be surprised if you had gone through your entire life without anyone criticising or disagreeing with you. It's healthy - any artist who surrounds himself only with people who are "yes-men" is doomed to mediocrity.

If I may give you some advice from an old grouch - you seem to be a young man with a lot of potential - you are wasting your energy and time getting angry (your words) over things that are not that important. Your work got censored - good! Great! You got somebody's attention! Somebody got your name wrong. So what? Move on. Life is short - choose your battles wisely. This ain't one of them.

Relax- enjoy a day that you woke up on the right side of the grass - listen to some Motown.

I clicked on the link (quote) and nothing happened - did I do it right? Where was I supposed to jump to? Now that I think about it - I'm at work and they block some sites, that may be the problem.

I also clicked Kim's link "don't be ignorant, think outside your box" That's what she was referring to about the pit bulls, right? It goes to Youtube and gives a message saying This video has been removed.

Ok, I am doing it right - that's what I got the third time trying - I thought it was me being computer-dumb. Kim is that the link we are supposed to click on?

i thought that pic was deleted..several times..it is back..have the mods decided it was ok?..

No I deleted it again .. and I am about to contact Jeff ...I have asked 4 times now and I would love something done .

the link no clue why it will not work .. maybe someone took it off utube ....but it was about how ALL dogs can bite then had a story about how a pit bull saved a babies life ....it was really cool I will see why it did not work and try to find it again .

Thanks

Okay, just reading a few comments (didn't even finish reading because I had something to say.. LOL I tend to do this) including those who are in charge.... I have to say, for me as a mod at another forum the mods actions here are the same as mine at another forum. I've come to the conclusion what I'd do is simply ask before I post it, sending a message to the site, or to one of the mods... I'm sure the mods here would respond back to you, if they don't then I'm sure they are busy and have a life outside of this forum. If I don't hear anything back then that means I'll simply not post the work. For two reasons to save time on both parties, and two because it's just common sense. I rather protect myself and this forum.

I know this type of topic can get heated, I've seen them. I know there are artists out there who feel differently as to if they should be contacted, etc... however on the flip side of the coin think about it, a mods job doesn't have to explain why they do something. The only person(s) they have to report to is the owners of the site, period. Sorry to sound harsh... I have been there as a mod and I know I don't have to explain as to why I delete a message, or delete something I feel a child doesn't need to see. And most importantly protecting childern today is important I would never question why something was taken down even if it was my work.

Perhaps the person doesnt understand english and he thinks his picture just keeps disappearing..i dont know .. we are not trying to dictate what he can draw..he can draw whatever the heck he wants to..but posting it here is inappropriate. it is not the atmosphere they are trying to create here..perhaps he should try deviant art..they may accept it..

he understands English lol he is ignoring me lol ...things are in the works and hopefuly we will be able to take care of him .. I have spoken to people who have the power to delete them .