Hello everyone!

New guy here, still learning the very, very basic stuff.

I've been learning about the various hardnesses of graphite pencils and have bought the standard 6B, 4B, 2B HB, & 2H.

While reading more about pencils and whatnot one tutorial mentioned about how easy it is to "dent" the paper with the H range pencils.

Well...I've always just used a plain ol' number 2 pencil on printer paper for all my past drawings. For dark shading I'd go ahead and dent the living crap out of the paper and it seemed to work ok I guess. But I'm trying to teach myself good habits and actually learn to draw well instead of being a doodler.

Is denting the paper a big no-no? Is this why there are around 20 different hardnesses of pencils to use? Is this just in case you make a mistake and have to erase? (I would think one would be sure of their marks before darkening hard enough even with a number 2 pencil to leave noticeable dents)

Anyways, anything you guys and gals could let me know about this I would be very appreciative.

Thanks!

Hi,

Welcome to Drawspace!

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with denting paper, but there are some attendant problems with doing so. Erasing is one, of course. It's sometimes hard to get graphite out of a dent.

More troublesome is when you can erase the graphite from a dent just fine, but then when you draw over the region containing a dent, the dent shows up as a white line. This might happen a long, long time later -- i.e., if you make a dent during an initial sketch, you might not find out about it until you're nearly done and are adding some delicate shading.

When I was just starting out, I ruined a few drawings while using the grid technique because I had drawn the grid using a hard pencil that left dents behind; even when the grid was erased, the dents remained, and telltale white lines show up in their wake. In fact, here's an image of mine that has this problem: if you look hard, you can see some white horizontal lines in the dark hair on top of her head.



Sometimes you deliberately make dents, exactly because you want those white lines! For example, I did that here to create the white whiskers and stray hairs:

I ain't got much to say because it was already said for me but 2 things now that you have the beginner pack if you want dark shades you either 4b or 6b personally my main pencil for almost every shade would be the 4b and also hb when used just right is great for outlines especially the mechanical pencils

And btw welcome to professional drawing and to this forum

Welcome Whicher, I think that Ernest has covered most of the problems that you can encounter with the dents.......as far as the darks go, I tend to use an 8b or even a solid stick of graphite which is a 9b, start gently, to prevent dents in your darkest areas that won't take colour use a smooth light pressure and it is the layers that will give you the depth of tone there. It sound simple but we all get a little impatient at times and that is our enemy as I too have ruined a pic with being too anxious to go too dark too quickly - and don't forget that blending will make all that layering even out and look great.

Good luck with your endeavours and never be afraid to ask. The only bad question is the one not asked - someone else too, out there, has wondered what you are asking.

Sue

Good stuff. Thanks!

It's been interesting just in the past week finally learning about drawing instead of just drawing. I only recently discovered blending stumps. And up until this point I've been using my fingers to do it. Go figure.

Yesterday I was drawing a picture of the bones of a hand (I really suck at drawing hands), I had to erase an area I accidentially blended too much and I was wondering how to keep from smearing the graphite back into the highlight. Then later that day I read about using a brush to get rid of the eraser bits left behind.

I've got a lot to learn. Thanks for the help!

Hello Whicher. I'm going to capitalize on your learning good habits comment and back up from your original concern a few steps, starting with the paper.

The beauty of art is everyone has a different way, this is all just my opinion.

If you're trying to actually learn new things and see what different techniques do for you, you'll need to put the printer paper back into the printer and get some real paper. Learning on something like printer paper really isn't learning, you're just slowing yourself down. You'll have to re-learn once you get real paper which actually has some kind of tooth to it. Printer paper is okay just for a preliminary sketch for ideas, but not for finished type drawings which require any type of layering or blending. Indenting the paper would be the least of your problems with bad paper. Inconsistent, toothless, unforgiving paper is a bad place to start.

Try different types of paper. My favorite which I use for everything is Arches Hot Press Watercolor paper. I'll use 140lb, but I prefer 300lb. A drawback to this paper is it's $. But there are other, cheaper good papers out there. Hot Press paper has a smoother finish to it than a cold press paper, which is rougher in texture. The Hot press is better for when you require a smoother texture as an end result. Try different paper is what you should be focusing on right now. You can get single sheets from an art supply store, label what it is in the corner and work small little drawings all over each different sheet to see which you like. You may change a bit as you improve your skills, but it'll give you a starting point and the beginnings of "paper experience."

Now back to your original point.
The paper is a major factor with indenting. Obviously the thicker the paper, the easier it'll be to indent and potentially damage the tooth. The "Tooth" of the paper gives the potential drawing its life. A key factor in drawing is learning to manipulate the tooth to achieve what it is you're looking for. Let it be, dark darks, smooth skin textures, the look of plastic, glass, rough skin, different types of hair... As you said, the harder the pencil, the deeper it'll depress the very soft paper. Getting the wide range of pencil grades and trying to achieve even pressure with all strokes regardless of the target value is a good starting point to work from with any drawing. What I mean by this is, if I'm using the HB pencil to achieve a tone I need, than I need to go darker in an area, I don't want to use the HB with harder pressure, I'll prefer to use the 2B or something of a softer grade, allowing me to use the same pressure as the HB but with the darker result. The texture you're trying to achieve is another issue with this, but as a beginner, that'll come more with experience. Layering different grades creates different results. A beginning layer with a harder pencil will smooth the tooth and create a smoother look. There are many different ways to achieve different things, so not to drift off your subject...

I always try to do the least amount of pressure possibile. As said above, there are good times to intentionally indent your paper, for whiskers, fine hairs, highlights, etc... Besides a cigarette lighter, there really are no "BIG NO-NOS" in art. Try different stuff, different blending tools, different pencils, pressure, shading styles and techniques, different ways of holding the pencil, layer different grades over other layers and see what you get, layer-blend-layer-blend, its all like match and it all yields a different solution.

80% of the time, I hold the pencil at the butt end and use mainly the pressure of the weight of the pencil. Of course there will be fine detail where I hold the pencil closer to the point, but not nearly as often as the very minimal pressure method.

How fast you run your pencil over the paper creates the skipping stone on the puddle effect. You'll leave more of the paper un-touched leaving a different texture than if you were to go slow and let the pencil work more on the surface. The angle of the pencil will play a large part on pressure and how the tip of the pencil drags on the surface, potentially having a larger impact on the tooth. How sharp your pencil is and the MM diameter of a mechanical plays a huge role in the damage to the tooth. Different pencil points create different texture as a blunt point glides over the surface touching less of the paper and not digging as deep. I try to keep a chisel tip on my pencils, I can roll it in my hand to maintain this tip and hold some consistency. I can use the same pencil at any time to either shade softly or roll the pencil in my hand 180 degrees and have a fine, very sharp edge to make the razor sharp edges.

Rule: paper damage/indentation is irreversible to the point of getting it back to its original state. I say this because you can bring it back to a point, but it'll never be the same and the surrounding paper can also take damage in the attempt to pull the indentation back out.

I always have a blank sheet of printer paper to shield my hand from the drawing paper. Whether it be over something already drawn or even over an un-touched spot of the drawing paper. That paper will accept anything you touch it with. Grease from your hand, dirt, skin oils, etc... even if you can't see it, it'll have an effect on your work. This blank sheet of paper can be used to unload a blending stump or test it to see what it'll do once loaded with graphite. I'll often scribble different grades of graphite onto the shield paper to give myself something to load the stump with. Label them HB or 3B or whatever for reference.

Research / Try different brands and types of paper. You're wasting time and making your life harder with the printer paper. It'll actually do damage to the learning curve.

I hope this helps

An interesting discussion, and, if its a basic question, its still a very good one, which has stimulated the writing of some highly-informative posts.

Dave

Another thing to add although water color paper is good it is pointless to buy it, you are just beggining so you probally use up more paper by just learning so I would suggest to get a medium-heavy weight paper that is acid free. A good cheap type of paper like this would would be the Mead Academie Spiral Bound sketch book. They are about $4, contain 70 sheets, and they are sold at most walmarts.

And about the blending (or smudging) into the wrong area I use either my auto. eraser or kneadable eraser

You bring up a good point about cost. I suppose its a matter of what you're looking to spend. For me, the paper is probably the most important part of the drawing (besides actual content). Most of the journey to learning to draw is learning to understand and manipulate the paper. Learning with a cheaper paper will slow down the learning process, unless you plan on sticking to the cheaper paper for a long time. I have a cheaper sketch pad for ideas and simple sketches, than I take the ideas to good paper and take my time.

Its a matter of personal preference. I tend to spend more on materials as the end result will truly show the difference. There are much cheaper papers than Arches which are still decent. Try different stuff and find your happy medium with quality and cost.

Indeed -- using watercolor paper for graphite is itself a personal preference, and a rather unusual one, although it clearly works for you. Plate-finish Bristol board, Rising Stonehenge, and Strathmore 500 series papers are all far more common choices among the folks here, although we have at least one excellent artist who uses cartridge paper exclusively! I'll echo the sentiment that good materials are generally worth the money, though.

How I do highlights .. because I too have dented my paper ..is I draw the picture and if I need white hairs ..I paint them on when I am all done by using acrylic paints and a brush with a long few hairs.

Wow. Thanks, Poecilotheria! I'll save this post to my pen drive so I can reread it numerous times and take it all in.

I have bought several types of drawing paper.

Strathmore Bristol Vellum 300 Series 9"x12" 100 lb.
Strathmore Drawing Medium 400 Series 8"x10" 80 lb.
And another Strathmore, can't remember exactly what it was. I don't have it here with me right now.

But to tell the truth I'm mainly just picking up random pads or grabbing them on the suggestion of random people that posted stuff on the web. I don't really understand what the differences are.

However the idea of paying $5-$8 for 20 sheets of paper and then filling them up in a few days with bad drawings of basic things like how to line up fingers on a hand realistically or the general placement of features on a face makes me cringe.

This is a really good piece of advice. I'm going to go the the art store and buy a bunch of individual sheets this weekend.

Thanks!

No problem, you're on the right track.

A lot of art supply stores will give you a thing of test paper if you ask them for it. It has several different types of paper in very small sizes.

Is identing the paper a big no no…..there are no rules there are basic techniques and once you have mastered the basics you can start to experiment and develop your own unique style, indenting paper can be extremely effective in creating highlights, introducing texture and developing layers in your work.

I suggest that you experiment, if it works for you develop it and make it your own, push the medium as far as you can, but at the same time understand the medium, try and complete a drawing only using an hb pencil, push the pencil to the extreme. You will be amazed at what you can achieve with only one pencil.

Have fun, enjoy…Kind regards WayneO

fully agree with you , Wayne

first = the basic
second = experiments